Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

North Korea's silent football matches

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 56 posts

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#31

Post by Volpe »

rikacomet wrote: post #19
cturner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first comment wasn't so good. But here you pose a great thought experiment. To run with your point for a moment - it is possible to consider the idea of a caste system. Most hacker news readers would be disgusted at it, but you could imagine it being run humanely, and the people there would be content to live as they are. Here's my rule zero of political freedom: do you live in fear of a knock on the door in the…

Yes, you have a very good point regarding caste system. About first post being, not that good, well I got that feeling (haha) No shit! well, there is a need for scrutiny, as to why there haven't been a popular revolt, against the government, if people are that oppressed, as we are being lead to believe.

Erm.. propaganda is a very powerful tool, when combined with extreme violence it is easy to oppresse a great number of people.

Your argument that "Given north koreans haven't revolted, might mean they don't mind", would be similar to saying "Maybe the jews didn't mind the holocaust, else why didn't they just overrun the prison camps"

You seem to just be trolling this whole article. There are number of accounts of how bad NK is from people who have escaped the country. There are a number of independent media groups who have made very compelling unbiased reports of what is happening in NK. There are a number of journalists who have been imprisoned while reporting in and around NK.

That coupled with the very public (false) propaganda that is produced by NK itself. Paints a very compelling case that NK is ruled by a single family that is controlling the entire population through miseducation (propaganda) and violence.

Could you show some evidence that suggests it is just media hype?

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#32

Post by GhotiFish »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #22
rikacomet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of all things, you had to go to my profile, and adjudge me ignorant, based on my age. Well, I don't mind that. Some people are built that way to find illogical reasons to deny someone's opinion. People here, of all the people, know better that wisdom is not based on age. It is rare at young age, but not impossible.

You're confusing "intelligence" and "wisdom". Wisdom is, without a doubt, based on age. It's something that can only be obtained through years and years of experience dealing with people, places, and situations in the world. While you may have more intelligence than an 80 year old Korean War vet, I don't think anyone would believe you have more wisdom.

A note on wisdom: A 21 year old posts advocating that we are almost certainly acting reactionary to a different culture.

Now if a 35 year old were to come along and outright dismiss him because he's too young, oblivious to how bad that would look to a herd of hackers, then that would challenge your assertion that wisdom is earned from experience.

My moneys on the 21 year old

but hey, I'm 25. You know us young fools, right?

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#33

Post by [deleted] »

rikacomet wrote: post #2

As long as they don't nuke anyone, I believe North Koreans have every right to live as they want, no matter how strange/hilarious/unmeaning/suppressed their lifestyle may seem to us. EDIT: Explanation- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694012

[deleted]

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#34

Post by return0 »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #22
rikacomet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of all things, you had to go to my profile, and adjudge me ignorant, based on my age. Well, I don't mind that. Some people are built that way to find illogical reasons to deny someone's opinion. People here, of all the people, know better that wisdom is not based on age. It is rare at young age, but not impossible.

You're confusing "intelligence" and "wisdom". Wisdom is, without a doubt, based on age. It's something that can only be obtained through years and years of experience dealing with people, places, and situations in the world. While you may have more intelligence than an 80 year old Korean War vet, I don't think anyone would believe you have more wisdom.

By that logic you must be even younger

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#35

Post by kpierre »

rikacomet wrote: post #7
kpierre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't think any of the elites want to live the way they do, too. but they're stuck in the loop like everyone else.

and you both are saying that from experience? You know the elites, and the poor, more than what we have seen through the media? No, unless you are North Korean citizens for years, it is hard to grasp the truth. Of course, we all made this judgement, by comparing our life, and putting ourself in what NK's seem like living in right now, and adjudged that we would hate such a life, so the actual North Koreans must be ha…

please read about Soviet Union. on elites, i recommend you "Nomenklatura: The Soviet Ruling Class" by Michael Voslenski. the soviet elites were screaming happy when borders were finally opened. and it's not like NK's lower classes have absolutely no idea what the outside world is like. it is well-known that many have access to SK TV shows and so on. speaking of the poorest, i don't think that you can get used to or love starvation.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#36

Post by GhotiFish »

cturner wrote: post #16
rikacomet wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and you both are saying that from experience? You know the elites, and the poor, more than what we have seen through the media? No, unless you are North Korean citizens for years, it is hard to grasp the truth. Of course, we all made this judgement, by comparing our life, and putting ourself in what NK's seem like living in right now, and adjudged that we would hate such a life, so the actual North Koreans must be ha…

Your first comment wasn't so good. But here you pose a great thought experiment. To run with your point for a moment - it is possible to consider the idea of a caste system. Most hacker news readers would be disgusted at it, but you could imagine it being run humanely, and the people there would be content to live as they are. Here's my rule zero of political freedom: do you live in fear of a knock on the door in the…

People fear knocks in the night in the USA, Canada, even Sweeden now adays. If you're damn fool enough to run afoul of copyright laws. In fact I would say it's a distopia, if all I did was focus on every incident of homes getting bashed in and governments misstepping. It's easy to fall into a focus illusion, and whenever mainstream media gets involved, there's going to be a focus illusion.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#37

Post by mikeash »

rikacomet wrote: post #7
kpierre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't think any of the elites want to live the way they do, too. but they're stuck in the loop like everyone else.

and you both are saying that from experience? You know the elites, and the poor, more than what we have seen through the media? No, unless you are North Korean citizens for years, it is hard to grasp the truth. Of course, we all made this judgement, by comparing our life, and putting ourself in what NK's seem like living in right now, and adjudged that we would hate such a life, so the actual North Koreans must be ha…

> No, unless you are North Korean citizens for years, it is hard to grasp the truth.

Those who were born there, lived there for years or decades, then escaped, grasp the truth, and have told others how it is.

It does not take any leap of imagination to say that North Korea is a hellhole. All it takes is paying a little attention to what's going on.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#38

Post by cturner »

rikacomet wrote: post #30
cturner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the caste thing, had some more thoughts. Django Unchained plays with this. At first, you don't know where Stephen fits in. Is he a slave who "knows his place"? But he's so disrespectful! Gradually you learn that he has carved out a special role for himself at the expense of others. There's lots of room for talking about knocks on the door, and who fears who in Pulp Fiction too. Thinking about North Korea is…

It depends, whether this is the case with NK as well. As it is, they are indeed subject to a fair amount of our interference, Ideas, or whatever you call it. But the fundamental issues of a country are poverty, education, shelter, etc. Why? Well, if you are hungry, a lifetime of servitude to psychological brainwash, would not turn the millions of years of instinct. If that situation worsens, people across North Korea…

Why are all the downvotes here? rikacomet isn't obnoxious, just making a point that you're uncomfortable with. Or maybe you can see flaws - if so then respond. If you can't explain why you disagree, maybe that's something you need to work on more constructively then silently downvoting something just because you disagree with it.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#39

Post by cturner »

GhotiFish wrote: post #36
cturner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first comment wasn't so good. But here you pose a great thought experiment. To run with your point for a moment - it is possible to consider the idea of a caste system. Most hacker news readers would be disgusted at it, but you could imagine it being run humanely, and the people there would be content to live as they are. Here's my rule zero of political freedom: do you live in fear of a knock on the door in the…

People fear knocks in the night in the USA, Canada, even Sweeden now adays. If you're damn fool enough to run afoul of copyright laws. In fact I would say it's a distopia, if all I did was focus on every incident of homes getting bashed in and governments misstepping. It's easy to fall into a focus illusion, and whenever mainstream media gets involved, there's going to be a focus illusion.

Yes. I made this point several times in drafts of the comment you replied to. But kept removing it because it didn't help me make the point and would have triggered offence in some people who'd otherwise get the point. (I was pushing my luck by mentioning farm animals already)

A British citizen was extradited to the US to be jailed for a crime that did not violate the principle of live and let live. That's an evil that's got long arms.

I guess I can see it as a limited dystopia - one of the worlds that Heinlein puts Job through. But I'd avoid using a word like that for this, for risk of overuse.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#40

Post by cinquemb »

cturner wrote: post #38
rikacomet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, whether this is the case with NK as well. As it is, they are indeed subject to a fair amount of our interference, Ideas, or whatever you call it. But the fundamental issues of a country are poverty, education, shelter, etc. Why? Well, if you are hungry, a lifetime of servitude to psychological brainwash, would not turn the millions of years of instinct. If that situation worsens, people across North Korea…

Why are all the downvotes here? rikacomet isn't obnoxious, just making a point that you're uncomfortable with. Or maybe you can see flaws - if so then respond. If you can't explain why you disagree, maybe that's something you need to work on more constructively then silently downvoting something just because you disagree with it.

Maybe the propagandaid has seeped too far in the (un)conscious minds of people to the extent that they cannot/do not question their own reality (maybe to the same extent that NK's?) and feel the need to fight/put down all existential threats to such.

Then again, nothing more depleted uranium rounds can't fix because terrorism.

Post reply on HN