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OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

macobserver.com

31–40 of 47 posts

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] I've never had problems with sleep/wakeup (except bugs in the firmware). Battery life is equal if not better than under windows. Developers rarely need 3D acceleration, and for most webgl demos and games the intel open source driver does just fine.

I don't think you can disprove anecdotal evidence with more anecdotal evidence.

[deleted]

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#32
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Linux has gotten any better on the desktop since 2007 or so. Hardware support still isn't perfect, sleep/wakeup still isn't perfect, battery life is still lower than on OS X/Windows, 3D acceleration is still iffy. It's a total disaster.

If you want it to work well you do have to be picky about hardware still, but there are absolutely entire systems that, out of the box, are well supported by linux now. My Toshiba z830 was nearly perfect out of the box for linux. Basically is most of the stuff in your computer is made by Intel you're probably golden. This isn't really any different from OSX in that there is literally only one hardware platform on whi…

It's very different. The difference is OSX is only trying to target one hardware platform (and succeeding) while Linux is trying to target the whole range of IBM PCs (and failing).

Before the era of the Linux on the desktop comes, we need an actual Linux desktop. Trying to target a whole host of hardware is too hard and unnecessary anyway - just copy Apple's strategy and let's move on to problems that are actually worth solving.

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#33
post #26

I think a lot of technical mac users would be better off at least trying a switch to Ubuntu or one of the minimalist variations thereof (xubuntu). A lot of the reasons those people switched to OSX are evaporating and Linux as a desktop or laptop development environment has improved hugely. If you're using vim or sublime you don't even need to change your editor.

I use ubuntu at work and osx at home. Ubuntu used to be amazing, and I still think it's good open source development platform, but the amount of time I've spent fixing drivers or fighting with unity has meant that it has cost me a lot more than osx. Then there is the abomination that is unity. They really hit the mark there, making a window manager for netbooks. Cause everyone in their target market uses a netbook, r…

Just out of curiosity, did you think about using KDE?

EDIT: typo

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#34
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Linux has gotten any better on the desktop since 2007 or so. Hardware support still isn't perfect, sleep/wakeup still isn't perfect, battery life is still lower than on OS X/Windows, 3D acceleration is still iffy. It's a total disaster.

I agree, but some brand new laptops are fully supported out of the box. I have a brand new Lenovo ThinkPad T530 and it's running Fedora 18 flawlessly. Wi-Fi, headphone plugged-in sensor, OSD, media keys, dual-monitor support, webcam, 3D acceleration, sleep/wakeup, all working since day 1 out of box. I think the more business oriented laptops are safe to run Linux and the new XPS 13 doesn't look bad at all except for…

Why aren't these merged into the mainline kernel? Is it due to possible patent infringement with ClearType and/or whatever Apple uses?

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#35

I think a lot of technical mac users would be better off at least trying a switch to Ubuntu or one of the minimalist variations thereof (xubuntu). A lot of the reasons those people switched to OSX are evaporating and Linux as a desktop or laptop development environment has improved hugely. If you're using vim or sublime you don't even need to change your editor.

Here are the reasons I switched to OSX: - Image installers (.dmg files) and complete installers (.pkg files, that bring dependencies with them). I have never seen either of those fail, ever. I have seen installations from .tar.gz -> ./configure && make && make install fail countless times. This is the number one reason for me, and it's so much more important than anything else that I have trouble thinking of other re…

One of the reasons I switched to Ubuntu was the fact that they streamlined third party packages in a way that integrated them into the update stream through the PPA system.

The fact that I can get an up-to-date version of Wine, for example, and be notified when there's a new version, is fantastic and easily beats chasing down installers from vendors themselves, or having each of them run their own updater.

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want it to work well you do have to be picky about hardware still, but there are absolutely entire systems that, out of the box, are well supported by linux now. My Toshiba z830 was nearly perfect out of the box for linux. Basically is most of the stuff in your computer is made by Intel you're probably golden. This isn't really any different from OSX in that there is literally only one hardware platform on whi…

It's very different. The difference is OSX is only trying to target one hardware platform (and succeeding) while Linux is trying to target the whole range of IBM PCs (and failing). Before the era of the Linux on the desktop comes, we need an actual Linux desktop. Trying to target a whole host of hardware is too hard and unnecessary anyway - just copy Apple's strategy and let's move on to problems that are actually wo…

Well, someone is certainly free to do that even if no one has yet. But the fact that I can buy a machine from a major vendor now that, without even advertising that fact, can run linux perfectly out of the box is a clear step-up over 2007.

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#37
post #10

I think a lot of technical mac users would be better off at least trying a switch to Ubuntu or one of the minimalist variations thereof (xubuntu). A lot of the reasons those people switched to OSX are evaporating and Linux as a desktop or laptop development environment has improved hugely. If you're using vim or sublime you don't even need to change your editor.

Really? The impression I got from Ubuntu users is that in the last few years it has made a lot of steps sideways.

I use xubuntu, and get all the benefits of its progress as a platform without any of the unity shell nonsense. It's nice.

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#38

oh, the irony. one line he says that he's a clever user that understands business, the other line suggests that what apple should do is change the filesytem. can you picture it? tim saying "one more thing to excite you" and announce a new filesytem instead of, say "Siri on your desktop"? I image 95% of the user base thinking "you updated the WHAT?!"

It would probably be sold more as a massive improvement in backup technology over time machine (which is already pretty nice).

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#39

I think a lot of technical mac users would be better off at least trying a switch to Ubuntu or one of the minimalist variations thereof (xubuntu). A lot of the reasons those people switched to OSX are evaporating and Linux as a desktop or laptop development environment has improved hugely. If you're using vim or sublime you don't even need to change your editor.

For me, the matter of deciding between OS X and Linux is one of responsibility. When I buy an Apple laptop, Apple accepts responsibility for things like making sure that the hardware and the operating system work well together. Apple also makes sure that updates are (generally) compatible with existing hardware, up to a point at which they no longer support the hardware, but that line in the sand is clear. It's easy for me to understand where support ends.

Apple is very good at this. Yes, you will hear gripes from people about issues with Apple hardware/software, but relative to the rest of the industry (which is the pragmatic measure), they're way ahead of the game.

Contrast this with Linux. Yes, I can get a laptop that has good Linux support, but ultimately, I'm responsible for compatibility between hardware and software. I can pay for Canonical for support, but I believe a large part of Apple's success in building great compters has to do with the fact that they own responsiblity for both the hardware and the software.

At the end of the day, OS X is unixy enough (it was "UNIX certified", at least at one point) to make it a suitable development environment for Unix-like software. Combine this with the opportunity to not have to think about hardware and software compatibility, and the combination keeps a significatn number of users from making the switch to Linux.

Re: OS X 10.9: A downward spiral or a new hope?

#40
I don't get this random Microsoft tie-in."On the other hand, when Apple unilaterally decides to drag 70 million users along, in a direction that seems arrogant and authoritarian, (like supressing the visibility of the ~/Library folder) or won't let them enable and disable feature as needed, then customers start to question whether they're paying for an operating system as a service or being charged a tax for the privilege of being manipulated. Microsoft has already traveled that rocky road. There's no need to follow." anyone know what he is referring to?
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