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My Time at Lehman

nickchirls.com

31–40 of 198 posts

Re: My Time at Lehman

#31
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wouldn't you feel shorted if you made the company 10x that in profit on your trades That guy didn't make the company all that money entirely on his own. Lehman supplied the capital, they get the bulk of the profit. That's how it works. If he wants the truly big bucks (as if a million isn't), then he should trade his OWN money. But of course he probably didn't have anywhere close to enough to do so.

You conveniently ignored "and all your friends at other firms that made 10x got a bigger check than you." People compare themselves to their peers. That's how it works.

I "ignored" that because it's total speculation, invented by the person above. It wasn't included in the source article at all.

And it's also completely irrelevant. Some of his peers on Wall Street got a bonus not of $2 million but of $20 million. If you can't emotionally handle that, then yes, you should definitely get off of Wall Street. You will never be the guy making the most money there.

The only people who are compensated exactly for the value they create are the people who risk their own money.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#32
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think American public policy has a hard time grappling with Wall Street because the financial sector has disproportionate lobbying power. Also, I don't think most Americans care about how free from regulation the financial sector is. Most people have a feeling that Wall Street is screwing over everybody and there's nothing they can do about it. I'm not exactly sure who you mean by "we," either. Hacker News commente…

> the financial sector has disproportionate lobbying power. I'm not sure that's true. If Wall Street really had some super lobbying power Dodd-Frank and Sarbanes-Oxley wouldn't have passed in their current forms. Regulating Wall Street is a pretty easy position to take if you're a politician.

The sophisticated firms just see those regulations as another challenge.

I usually don't call for increased salaries for government workers, but the people regulating Wall Street probably need to be making near-mid-six-figure salaries. Otherwise the ones who are good at their job will just get hired away by Wall Street.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#33
post #20
post #8

I worked at Lehman from 2004-2008 in investment banking and on the bond trading floor and I think I have a little more balanced view. Yes, there are people on wall street that hate their jobs. Yes, there are people obsessed with money. That's easy to point out. But there are also some people that are there because they like working with their friends and making big bets, and getting proven wrong or right. It's actual…

> wouldn't you feel shorted if you made the company 10x that in profit on your trades That guy didn't make the company all that money entirely on his own. Lehman supplied the capital, they get the bulk of the profit. That's how it works. If he wants the truly big bucks (as if a million isn't), then he should trade his OWN money. But of course he probably didn't have anywhere close to enough to do so.

> That guy didn't make the company all that money entirely on his own. Lehman supplied the capital, they get the bulk of the profit. That's how it works.

Capital doesn't sit there and make money by itself. The allocation between how much of the profit the bank gets versus the trader is itself a market transaction--if the bank low-balls traders consistently, they'll just go to another bank. If the supply of traders who can do that is low relative to the amount of capital available to invest, bonuses will go up and traders will take a larger allocation.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#34
post #15

Not to be too self-promotional, but this is literally the problem we're solving at Addepar. 15 years ago the power shifted from banks to hedge funds, and then in 2008 it started shifting to investors. But they still don't have the tools to understand what's going on. If you're interested in solving problems like this in an engineering-led company, please email me. I'd love to talk.

What are your plans to deal with this?

I think it's explained on the Addepar site:

https://addepar.com/technology/

Looks like graph theory to analyze investments as a set of relationships, rather than bar charts just showing aggregate stats.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We like the idea of letting everyone transact freely, but we are uncomfortable with the "winner take all" implication of that policy." I don't agree with this fully. Your statement implies that "Freely" means "with complete abandon to any sort of soundly regulated and protected system designed to prevent fraud, corruption, exploitation... " -- Also, acquiescing to the "well the system is fucked by design, why are…

But it's not just fraud, corruption, and exploitation. It's probably not even mostly that. It's about being able to just run the numbers a little bit better, aggregated over millions of repeat transactions. That's part of the narrative I'm talking about. We tell ourselves: "It's only because of fraud, corruption, and exploitation" that all this money is flowing from main street to wall street.

It's not just running the numbers better. It's having the numbers to run. That's what information asymmetry is all about. One side of the transaction has the data at the most detailed level and have the technological sophistication to be able to operate on that larger quantity of data in a reasonable time frame. The guys on the other side don't even have the data, only aggregated summaries. Even if they figured out how to get the details it requires significantly more technical resources in terms of hardware, software and engineering to be able to compete.

My point is that it's not just that the big guys have better programs...they have better programs and better data and it's frequently the data that makes the difference.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#36
Brain Drain of American industries, by American Banks

Wall Street, in its current form, is a poison for America.

"I was later told that of my class of 1400 graduates from Yale, forty percent took jobs in finance."

Of course when he says finance, it means Wall Street banks.

I strongly believe Wall Street is the reason for the continuing decline of American industry and America itself. First reason is causing a massive brain drain out of other American industries by offering such ridiculous salaries for NEW hires. The second reason is exporting jobs (and intangible knowhow) for better margin/profit, which is really caused by top execs who want a bigger bonus check, which in turn is encouraged by Wall Street/stocks.

Think about it, you have to agree all those 560 (probably top tier at Yale) Yale graduates are BRILLIANT people. Yes some probably got in because of family connection etc, but most are brilliant and hard working. These are the kind of people who would've risen above others in their given field and eventually lead others to greatness. Their talent (however inexperienced initially) really has no boundary. But of course following a non-banking career path would mean actually working for years WITHOUT easily making 0.25 million bucks a year. And of course in non-banking industry you may never get to a position of making 0.25 million bucks a year ever in your working life. So the choice is a really EASY one for the graduates. And once they start down the career path, it's incredibly hard to get out. What will you do? You have no other real skill and you are used to a 0.25 million dollar lifestyle.

So what does this vicious cycle translate into?

1. Other American industries (or career fields) don't get the best talent available in the nation. They get the second best. Meanwhile other nations like China, S Korea, Japan etc are in a different situation. They don't have a banking system like Wall Street. Their banking systems aren't as powerful as Wall Street and hence don't offer such out of proportion compensation, for NEW hires. So their top graduates really don't have a choice BUT go work in a non-banking industry. Sure they would be bitter for not making 0.25 million bucks a year but their talent contributes concretely to their industry, create jobs, and keep their tax receipts rolling, which in turn help fund creating better education and infrastructure.

2. Wall Street is sending jobs abroad to fatten its bonus checks, while giving out some crumbs to some execs of other non-bank industries. As long as numbers look good, top execs at companies get fat checks, so they make incredibly stupid decisions that are bad for the company long term. But what do they care when they get 10 million when leaving the position. And all of this is shaped/encouraged by the Wall Street, who need cooperating ceos to make the wheels of Wall Street turn, printing out money for the top execs of Wall Street and their new hires.

I'm sure people in Wall Street are patriots. In cynical mode, why wouldn't they be? America is capitalism and in capitalism people with money are the kings. In non-cynical mode, I believe they are really patriotic. But they have to know, they are slowly strangling the life out of American industries, and America itself.

One solution I can think of is limiting the compensation of NEW hires of Wall Street. Make them work for compensation similar to maybe new doctors or lawyers from top law schools. Only once they are promoted after a few years, should be be allowed 0.25 million dollar salary. Maybe this will force some graduates think twice about jumping into Wall Street.

Now you ask why in heck would Wall Street leaders limit themselves? Well my warning is, at this rate, Wall Street itself will have to move to Shanghai or Singapore. You are being stupid if China will just stop at taking over non-banking industries. They want to be the central place for exchanging money on the planet too. Who wouldn't be? So unless the leaders of Wall Street aren't too keen about moving their HQ and homes to China, they better rethink their hiring practice.

Oh btw, China is full of Chinese (duh) bankers who would LOVE to take over the role of current Wall Street kings.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#37
post #9

"Which, it turns out, is a trader’s field day. What this meant, in its simplest form, is that these traders (or salespeople) could buy bonds at the "market" price from intelligent hedge fund managers in NYC and sell this same crap at much higher levels to unsophisticated (but legally considered "sophisticated") pension funds and insurance companies in middle America. What I discovered, quite starkly, is that the part…

> simply transferring wealth from the less sophisticated investors often teachers’ pension funds and factory workers’ retirement accounts, to the more sophisticated investors... Exactly. Wall street and investment have wonderful effects -- funneling money towards companies that can use it in amazingly productive ways. It provides an incredibly valuable service. But the flip side is exactly this, that pension funds, o…

Because people are different, if you're 20 year-old healthy female you'll have a completely different risk profile from a 64 year-old male with health problems.

If you work in the government you might want to avoid your pension being in your own government bonds because you don't want all your eggs in one basket.

If you're an immigrant who plans to retire back to your home country you might want to limit you exposure to currency risk.

It's not just about betting on being better than the market, it's about aligning your investments (pension or otherwise) with your personal situation and objectives.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#38
post #33
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wouldn't you feel shorted if you made the company 10x that in profit on your trades That guy didn't make the company all that money entirely on his own. Lehman supplied the capital, they get the bulk of the profit. That's how it works. If he wants the truly big bucks (as if a million isn't), then he should trade his OWN money. But of course he probably didn't have anywhere close to enough to do so.

> That guy didn't make the company all that money entirely on his own. Lehman supplied the capital, they get the bulk of the profit. That's how it works. Capital doesn't sit there and make money by itself. The allocation between how much of the profit the bank gets versus the trader is itself a market transaction--if the bank low-balls traders consistently, they'll just go to another bank. If the supply of traders wh…

[deleted]

Re: My Time at Lehman

#39
post #29
post #9

"Which, it turns out, is a trader’s field day. What this meant, in its simplest form, is that these traders (or salespeople) could buy bonds at the "market" price from intelligent hedge fund managers in NYC and sell this same crap at much higher levels to unsophisticated (but legally considered "sophisticated") pension funds and insurance companies in middle America. What I discovered, quite starkly, is that the part…

I know several people who make a lot of money in trading, and I hear the liquidity argument constantly as the justification for their behavior. They describe the millions that they make as payment for all the 'value' that they've given to everyone; But, as an ignorant, I can't see how those millions could have come from anywhere than other (less informed) peoples' pockets. To me, the worst part (again, as an ignorant…

Do NOT ever trust people who try to justify their position when they are making MILLIONS from it. I mean, you DON'T need to test it. Doing whatever it takes (lying, misleading, deluding self) to get what you want (and in this case millions of bucks, not just a toy truck) is a basic life skill you learn in daycare.

Re: My Time at Lehman

#40
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We like the idea of letting everyone transact freely, but we are uncomfortable with the "winner take all" implication of that policy." I don't agree with this fully. Your statement implies that "Freely" means "with complete abandon to any sort of soundly regulated and protected system designed to prevent fraud, corruption, exploitation... " -- Also, acquiescing to the "well the system is fucked by design, why are…

But it's not just fraud, corruption, and exploitation. It's probably not even mostly that. It's about being able to just run the numbers a little bit better, aggregated over millions of repeat transactions. That's part of the narrative I'm talking about. We tell ourselves: "It's only because of fraud, corruption, and exploitation" that all this money is flowing from main street to wall street.

I think you're misinterpreting my comment.

The statement was that "We like the idea of letting everyone transact freely, but we are uncomfortable with the "winner take all" implication of that policy"

But this is not true. We are not uncomfortable with free transactions resulting in winning - we are uncomfortable with "free" being the state of the system whereby the winner is able to do so because there is no oversight over the WAY in which these winnings are achieved.

namely, that one side of the transaction is exploiting their position of data/information superiority for their benefit and as a result, those who are under the delusion that they have a chance of making out well in the transaction suffer the reality of being the victim of having less data/information/sophistication.

We all want "FREE" transactions - but we want them on a level playing field.

THe fact is that there is no level playing field when it comes to the pinnacle of the monetary system.

The system is DESIGNED to not be in anyone's favor but wall street.

Further, they have worked very very hard at tremendous expense to ensure that the regulatory system, bodies and laws are all skewed in their favor!

Ignorance has so badly corrupted the minds of the world that even the understanding of the term Free is lost on most.

There can be an hour long rant on how exactly unfree every one truly is due to debt-slavery.

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