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Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

blog.jasonshah.org

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Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#31

Post by martinshen »

qeorge wrote: post #7

I largely agree with the OP. This reminds me of Loopt. If I were Foursquare, I would use the metadata (reviews, checkins, etc) to build a Yellow Pages site that's powered by 4sq users gestures. But I'd leave monitization out of the consumer app entirely, and just focus on making it great and popular. Internet yellow pages is crazy boring, stupidly profitable, and waiting for disruption. Google Places and Yelp are cur…

Just like Loopt though, they have inherent value (some company will buy them for at least $100m). I shared some of my thoughts on the transaction here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5533949

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#32

Post by cinquemb »

Mz wrote: post #22

I feel like I don't really know enough about this to speculate. I think both articles (this one and the one it links to which argues the opposite) both have some good points. But I get the impression that, like me, neither author really knows this space well enough to draw good conclusions. I like the data point (from the baptiste piece) that offline commerce is still 95% of spending, thus it is a 19x larger market t…

>So I think Four Square is breaking new ground. Yes, that's always risky. But I am guessing they understand this space better than the hn equivalent of a few "armchair politicians" looking on from the outside.

Very true, I still think they are on the verge of something (whether they are it or not is another question left up to the internet). I think it would be pretty cool if they worked with the stores to create an personalized interactive experience for the user. Checkins would be the first step, but after that, they could try to gamify the space/store/shop that took very little effort from the stores part, but also give reasons for users to go to stores beyond "you can buy this".

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#33

Post by Mz »

cinquemb wrote: post #32
Mz wrote: post #22

I feel like I don't really know enough about this to speculate. I think both articles (this one and the one it links to which argues the opposite) both have some good points. But I get the impression that, like me, neither author really knows this space well enough to draw good conclusions. I like the data point (from the baptiste piece) that offline commerce is still 95% of spending, thus it is a 19x larger market t…

>So I think Four Square is breaking new ground. Yes, that's always risky. But I am guessing they understand this space better than the hn equivalent of a few "armchair politicians" looking on from the outside. Very true, I still think they are on the verge of something (whether they are it or not is another question left up to the internet). I think it would be pretty cool if they worked with the stores to create an…

I am not on Four Square. Are they all about "stores"/other commercial spaces? Or do they do check-ins for libraries, parks, beaches, and/or other non-commercial sites?

(I am sparing you my probably crazed-sounding rant. :-/ But I find visions of a future where something like Four Square is all about commercial only spaces pretty horrifying. So I am hoping for good news about where they are now in that regard.)

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#34

Post by marssaxman »

corylehey wrote: post #12
qeorge wrote: post #7

I largely agree with the OP. This reminds me of Loopt. If I were Foursquare, I would use the metadata (reviews, checkins, etc) to build a Yellow Pages site that's powered by 4sq users gestures. But I'd leave monitization out of the consumer app entirely, and just focus on making it great and popular. Internet yellow pages is crazy boring, stupidly profitable, and waiting for disruption. Google Places and Yelp are cur…

i've been a long time foursquare hater, I never understood why anyone would want to "check-in". That being said I have used their explore feature for restaurants in NYC for about a year, and find it vastly superior to yelp. Why? Tips. When i look up a place on foursquare I immediately know "what to order" at a given place, I often will look up a place at foursquare while I am sitting there deciding what to order. The…

You check in so your friends know where you are and can choose to come join you there. Among my circle of friends, the understanding is that checking in on foursquare implicitly invites anyone who sees the checkin to drop in if they happen to be in the area.

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#35

Post by cinquemb »

Mz wrote: post #33
cinquemb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So I think Four Square is breaking new ground. Yes, that's always risky. But I am guessing they understand this space better than the hn equivalent of a few "armchair politicians" looking on from the outside. Very true, I still think they are on the verge of something (whether they are it or not is another question left up to the internet). I think it would be pretty cool if they worked with the stores to create an…

I am not on Four Square. Are they all about "stores"/other commercial spaces? Or do they do check-ins for libraries, parks, beaches, and/or other non-commercial sites? (I am sparing you my probably crazed-sounding rant. :-/ But I find visions of a future where something like Four Square is all about commercial only spaces pretty horrifying. So I am hoping for good news about where they are now in that regard.)

No, you can checkin anywhere (assuming one can produce gps cords for the location).

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#36

Post by potatolicious »

stephenhuey wrote: post #14
corylehey wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've been a long time foursquare hater, I never understood why anyone would want to "check-in". That being said I have used their explore feature for restaurants in NYC for about a year, and find it vastly superior to yelp. Why? Tips. When i look up a place on foursquare I immediately know "what to order" at a given place, I often will look up a place at foursquare while I am sitting there deciding what to order. The…

Can you explain what you mean? The current Yelp app has both Reviews and Tips.

Yelp focuses on the "Wall of Text" type of review. Foursquare tips are one-liners.

So instead of:

"My date and I came here a few weeks ago and the initial ambience was great. We waited around 20 minutes for seats and the decor out front was..."

you get

"Try the veal. Seriously."

One is much, much more useful in the mobile context, the other is almost useless. Yelp also over-emphasizes the star-rating system (which at this point is completely irrelevant and pure noise) while Foursquare simply throw tips at you.

Overall I've found that Foursquare Explore's recommendations in NYC to be vastly superior to Yelp. I'd be sad if they go under.

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#37

Post by jason_shah »

lotso wrote: post #26

> Check-ins are moving to Facebook, Path, etc., so now Foursquare is left with local promotions but no core utility for the user. Is this anecdotal or based on data?

According to Foursquare's co-founder Dennis Crowley, as quoted by TechCrunch, the service saw 5 million checkins per day as of Feb. 2013. But that was the same as per-day checkins as the previous year. Flat growth to me, especially in their space.

The rest, and a fairly critical piece of my statement, about checkins moving to Facebook and Path I admit wholeheartedly was anecdotal and speculative.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/11/foursquares-new-series-d-ro...

http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/16/interview-dennis-crowley-of...

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#38

Post by msellout »

jshen wrote: post #24
qeorge wrote: post #7

I largely agree with the OP. This reminds me of Loopt. If I were Foursquare, I would use the metadata (reviews, checkins, etc) to build a Yellow Pages site that's powered by 4sq users gestures. But I'd leave monitization out of the consumer app entirely, and just focus on making it great and popular. Internet yellow pages is crazy boring, stupidly profitable, and waiting for disruption. Google Places and Yelp are cur…

"Internet yellow pages is crazy boring, stupidly profitable" How is it stupidly profitable? I used to work at YP.com and they make all their money on the dead tree book

perhaps he meant the industry in general (of listing merchants) rather than the Yellow Pages company specifically.

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#39

Post by pyre »

dchuk wrote: post #28
qeorge wrote: post #7

I largely agree with the OP. This reminds me of Loopt. If I were Foursquare, I would use the metadata (reviews, checkins, etc) to build a Yellow Pages site that's powered by 4sq users gestures. But I'd leave monitization out of the consumer app entirely, and just focus on making it great and popular. Internet yellow pages is crazy boring, stupidly profitable, and waiting for disruption. Google Places and Yelp are cur…

It's wayyyyyyy too late in the game for foursquare to ignore monetization entirely

The point of the comment was to monetize the data in making a YellowPages-type app, while leaving monetization out of the other part of the business. Basically make money using the data that your users give you while ignoring attempts to directly turn those users into money (i.e. serving ads).

Re: Foursquare: An Ads Business With a Dying Product Hook

#40

Post by jshen »

msellout wrote: post #38
jshen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Internet yellow pages is crazy boring, stupidly profitable" How is it stupidly profitable? I used to work at YP.com and they make all their money on the dead tree book

perhaps he meant the industry in general (of listing merchants) rather than the Yellow Pages company specifically.

How does the industry in general make its money?
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