Did the dude who made the comment say it in front of her? That's so awkward! Who does that?
She didn't speak up, either?
I'm tired
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Re: I'm tired
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
It isn't an insult. The insult was what he said to begin with. Would it had been better if I said he needs to "have his mouth washed out with soap" like a 5 year old? Seriously. To tell me he doesn't deserve a similar treatment to what he displayed to the female is naive. He needs to know that what he did is not excusable and wont be tolerated.
Yes, it is an insult, and you're not doing anyone any favors by dissembling. Regardless of your motivations, you decided to employ a gendered attack with a very long list of connotations--one of the more prevalent being that those who are not 'real men' are themselves exhibiting feminine qualities. His behavior is 100% unacceptable. Yours isn't, either. "An eye for an eye" doesn't help anyone be better, and education…
ok, I can see your point. Education is the real goal. When enough people are educated over time this type of stuff goes aways.
Isn't perpetuation of the problem double edged? Those that make those comments dont accept education without having a reason to. Those that try and convey that reasoning, if they do it in a similar manner, are accused of perpetuation. So how does one make someone understand what they did without giving them a does of what it feels like?
How do you educate better?
Re: I'm tired
#33I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…
I agree with you wholeheartedly, but for a non confrontational person this course of action is still a battle. When you see this all the time and fight it even just by calling it out, it still wears you out. Like it or not the hackerverse is full of people who deemphasize social experiences in favour of other things. When someone makes a comment this inappropriate in public you're not just battling their sexism, you'…
I think this is so right on, and one of the best sum-ups of the problem our industry has dealing with this sort of thing. I don't have these issues with confrontation, but I'm super familiar with the fact that so many people I've worked with do. That's hard.
Re: I'm tired
#34Can we tell the GDC committee? There were witnesses, and getting him expelled from future GDC events seems like an appropriate reaction.
Speaking based on experience with what happened to Jesse Noller and the PSF just two weeks ago , you do not want to escalate this to any level where someone might lose a job or be asked to leave the conference. The same people that cannot handle social situations with women without discussing their tits resort to death threats and nonstop harassment when one of "their own" is chastised publicly for such a thing. If I…
I think that this has to come from both directions:
1. Remember those silly class codes of conduct we had to do at the beginning of each school year? Bring something like that back at the beginning of each conference. OK, not quite that cheesy, but a reminder at the start about the code of conduct. Offer refunds at that point if people don't agree with them. Hell, we have to sit through the Health and Safety stuff anyway so it's a good time to add them in. (Speaking of which, I think it's too late to do anything int regards to the guy this year).
2. At a grass roots level. I know it's a horrible analogy, but I remember when I was taking my dog through dog obedience (OK, puppy kindy) that if you don't punish a dog within four seconds for something they've done wrong, you might as well forget it as they will have. In that respect, I think any social reactions have to be swift and to the point. Walk away from a group if something is unacceptable, or very quickly say something along the lines of 'that crossed the line and isn't cool'.
Re: I'm tired
#35Wow. That male at the table needs to have his balls removed for such a statement. He may be male, but he isn't a man. A real man wouldn't behave like that. Edit: OK, maybe having his balls removed is excessive. He is mocking a womens anatomy and the reverse would make him feel good. i.e saying he got into GDC because of his testicles isn't the same type of insult as the female getting in for her "tits". So this isn't…
Please stop, you're over compensating. Yes the person in this story is a dick but being a dick does not mean someone should have their body mutilated, nor does it somehow make them a faux-person. Saying someone isn't a "real man" is just as ridiculous as what the person in the story said. You're not scoring any magical man points with a comment like this.
it isn't my goal to score points though.
Maybe him being a dick in front of people at the table is enough to help change him.
Thanks for your point.
Re: I'm tired
#36Not this again. The kind of people who make this kind of comment don't give a shit about this kind of blogpost.
Re: I'm tired
#37I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…
For a bit of nuance, instead of "fuck off", you could try something like "I disagree, but I'm pretty tired of that conversation", and change the topic. Statement made, stupid comment brushed off, nobody got hurt. The whole "down to their level and beat you with experience" thing comes to mind.
Actually, I would argue that "fuck off" is the better response. "I disagree" implies that there's grounds for legitimate discussion when the initial remark is so far out of line there really isn't.
Re: I'm tired
#38Despite the feeling that "some people can't / won't change" I believe in teachable moments[1]. I can't recall where I heard this, but someone once said that racism and bigotry were diminished in this country when people shamed friends and family members for making insensitive remarks.
1. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachable_moment#section_3
Re: I'm tired
#39[deleted]
Re: I'm tired
#40When I was in basic training for the Army, my drill instructor told us that they can turn us into soldiers but there is nothing they can do to fix 18 years of bad parenting. For me, there are certain traits and ways of thinking that I just can't tolerate. In some cases, I can tolerate those beliefs if the person is able to keep them locked up when I'm around. Usually this person is smart enough to know a certain beli…
Not sure why this comment is being downvoted. It's entirely true. The reason we've got people in the world who make comments like this is because they were raised in an environment where it was normal, and they think it's normal. We've got bad eggs in all walks of life. Society moves on and ultimately those people will suffer for going against the grain. It's a shame that ladies are so overwhelmed by this in our industry but you can't let the dweebs in society get you down.
Most of the people in her group shared the same reaction: they were surprised and defended her. I realize that ladies have it tough in our industry, but it's not a 50:50 men vs women war.
When you're in a jam like that, there isn't much you can do. You don't engage them. When someone says shit like that, you just ignore them. Or change the subject. Or leave. As the author said herself ... she isn't a confrontational person. Most women aren't. So, you just drop it and walk away. I do it all the time. I have no patience for stupid people, regardless of their gender.