Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail" • Hacker News Board

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#31

Post by JoelSutherland » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 7:41 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #26

markh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the camp that says 37Signals have a valid point. Let's assume their intention is not about traffic but is to pressure GetSatisfaction into rectifying the situation as quickly as possible (and not just for 37Signals) then as harsh as the post may have been: 1) 37Signals have used their considerable influence to achieve change on behalf of many sites who have far less influence 2) 37Signals used the open model o…

That they have a valid point is not in question. GS themselves have acknowledged it and immediately fixed the offending badges and pages. My point is, the way they handled conveying that point to GetSatisfaction was nasty, brutish, and totally unwarranted.

That they have a valid point is not in question.

totally unwarranted

If you agree that Jason's point is valid, I don't see how you can think his response was unwarranted.

Jason did not appear to believe GetSatisfaction simply slipped up. Instead he accused them of extortion! His response was in line with this belief and only unwarranted if you disagree with his point.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#32

Post by swombat » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 7:43 PM UTC

JoelSutherland wrote: post #31

swombat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they have a valid point is not in question. GS themselves have acknowledged it and immediately fixed the offending badges and pages. My point is, the way they handled conveying that point to GetSatisfaction was nasty, brutish, and totally unwarranted.

That they have a valid point is not in question. totally unwarranted If you agree that Jason's point is valid, I don't see how you can think his response was unwarranted. Jason did not appear to believe GetSatisfaction simply slipped up. Instead he accused them of extortion! His response was in line with this belief and only unwarranted if you disagree with his point.

That they have a valid point does not mean that all their points were valid.

Valid point: GS wording is bad.

Invalid point: GS are evil extortionists.

Both can coexist in the same post.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#33

Post by jdileo » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 7:43 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

37signals absolutely has a valid point and I agree with their decision to make this public so all can be aware of the tactics being employed by GS.

FYI-GS is using the same type of extortion that the Better Business Bureau (BBB) has used since inception to scare companies into becoming a paid member. The general public has no idea how dishonest many of these client attainment methods really are.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#34

Post by moe » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 7:44 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #22

swombat wrote: post #12

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. I see no indication that there was any communication between 37Signals and GetSatisfaction prior to this very public post. I've had this kind of thing done to me before, and I think it's really out of order. Essentially, 37Signals have decided, in this case, to trade politeness and "being good" for making…

I think it's quite bad form to publicly attack another company like this without discussing it in private first. Whereas I think a public statement of outrage is entirely justified. Take a look at the screenshot. GetSatisfaction has been collecting feedback under the 37signals name for at least a month. Those people who typed messages into GetSatisfaction expecting a response have been disappointed for a while. Anyon…

Amen.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#35

Post by JoelSutherland » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 7:47 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #32

JoelSutherland wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they have a valid point is not in question. totally unwarranted If you agree that Jason's point is valid, I don't see how you can think his response was unwarranted. Jason did not appear to believe GetSatisfaction simply slipped up. Instead he accused them of extortion! His response was in line with this belief and only unwarranted if you disagree with his point.

That they have a valid point does not mean that all their points were valid. Valid point: GS wording is bad. Invalid point: GS are evil extortionists. Both can coexist in the same post.

That they have a valid point is not in question.

Should I have taken that to mean: "That some of the very minor points he made were valid is not in question."?

Clearly the takeaway from his post was not that he disagreed with the wording.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#36

Post by mmelin » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 7:58 PM UTC

mmelin wrote: post #9

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #3

For what it's worth, Thor Muller (Cofounder of Get Satisfaction) responded in the comments and said the wording was a mistake and would be changed immediately: "Gosh, we messed up on the wording of that badge and are changing it pronto. The wording on that badge was actually intended to explicitly state that the space was NOT OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED by the company, but that doesn’t come off at all. The idea is to encou…

That badge has been on GetSatisfaction pages for as long as I can remember, at least a year. I find it hard to believe that it could be an oversight.

I have to say that I seem to be completely wrong here. Looking through the Internet Archive, with the previous design it used to say: "Anyone can add a company or organization

Love a company? Or hate one? Add it to Satisfaction!

Is your company or organization already here? Claim it and get involved with your customers."

It would seem as if I'm misremembering because I have spent a disproportionate amount of time on GS the last few weeks. Apologies.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#37

Post by thorax » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:00 PM UTC

metachris wrote: post #19

thorax wrote: post #6

I don't have any strong feelings about Get Satisfaction (or any of the other sites like this), but we made http://featurelist.org available for free to anyone who wants a lighter approach to that sort of thing. It focuses a bit more on the feature request side than the technical support pieces, but it might be interesting to some of you. Once we catch our breath from our other sites, we're going to provide featurelis…

sorry to say, but featurelist.org has a horrible look and feel, although the idea is quite nice. i'd guess you're a couple of coders -- get a graphic designer on board! (and keep up the work :)

Thanks for commenting.

Featurelist won't appeal to everyone visually, though, neither does Reddit or HN. A lot of our users have liked the simplicity of the site, but it might not be for you.

We're not focusing on the visual aspects (not to the extent we have for bug.gd or yumbunny), so no one should expect a facelift or for it to win any awards. I'm just sharing it here so people know they have other alternatives floating around. To each their own, of course.

Thanks for your feedback.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#38

Post by sfg » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:00 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #27

JoelSutherland wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The text in the badge is/was: 37signals has not yet committed to open conversation about its products and services. Encourage them to join and support the Company-Customer Pact. I really have a hard time believing that this was an oversight. It is at the top of almost every page. When you consider GetSatisfaction's strategy it is even well written.

What you say is completely true. That said: Accept the groveling apology for what it is. GetSatisfaction has passed the first test of customer support: When the customer gets angry, you must grovel, and vice versa: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=240170

"GetSatisfaction has passed the first test of customer support", What customer? 37Signals are not a customer, but a victim.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#39

Post by sfg » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:04 PM UTC

swilliams wrote: post #24

tom_rath wrote: post #10

Is that really Get Satisfaction's doing, or was it a 37signals fanboy who put that together without permission? Snagging the look-and-feel (graphics, colours, etc.) of a target's site is particularly sleazy and it seems very odd if Get Satisfaction has chosen to go that route for their business. Unless Get Satisfaction provides a prominent "request this forum be deleted" link, and actually removes a forum on request,…

It should be noted that the look and feel is the same (except for logos) for every company. See, http://getsatisfaction.com/comcast for example. Yes, I would say that they have a similar L & F and color scheme as 37 Signals, but I would not go so far as to say it is "ripped off."

Taking the logos without permission is bad enough.

Re: Jason Fried: Get Satisfaction is "awfully close to blackmail"

#40

Post by webwright » Tue, Mar 31, 2009, 8:04 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #11

JoelSutherland wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The text in the badge is/was: 37signals has not yet committed to open conversation about its products and services. Encourage them to join and support the Company-Customer Pact. I really have a hard time believing that this was an oversight. It is at the top of almost every page. When you consider GetSatisfaction's strategy it is even well written.

I agree. The language was simple and clear. I have difficulty believing language that straight-forward was an accident.

They don't mean accident in that they fell on a keyboard and that came out. They mean accident in that someone wrote it as placeholder (or supposed final) copy and it didn't get reviewed/agreed to by the team before it got launched. Clearly some writer was overzealous and the higher-ups didn't get a chance to read it.

Happens all the time at small startups.