Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out • Hacker News Board

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#31

Post by colabug » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 5:50 AM UTC

ianschenck wrote: post #29

colabug wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cards Against Humanity is irrelevant to the issue. Also it's not about being puritanical and easily offended. Being a male geek/dork/nerd/outcast in school doesn't excuse behavior that causes a hostile, sexualized, or otherwise unwelcoming environment. I, a female geek, was an outcast too and participated in many of the activities you mention, yet I came out mature. You claim that male engineers (which you referred t…

I still don't see how "large dongle" is sexist. I'm glad you take the time to re-educate those around you. It's probably the hardest thing to do, but ultimately the best way forward for everyone. Maybe I'm overly optimistic on the ability of education though. What I find really suspect is her feeling like and calling herself a hero. Her reference to herself as "Joan of Arc". Also going public immediately. I have been…

It creates a sexualized environment, here's a good article:

http://geekfeminism.org/2012/10/01/when-sex-and-porn-are-on-...

It's hard to understand the "hero" feeling unless you've been quiet and avoided speaking out on similar (and often bigger) events. It feels good to stand up for your fellow females and community, even if you get negative public attention for it. I think more things big and small should be addressed so that it never leads to a "real" abusive environment again (As an aside, you don't get to decide what is a "real, abusive situation").

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#32

Post by johnny22 » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:02 AM UTC

bradhe wrote: post #7

johnny22 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sexual jokes during presentations are tacky no matter who is in attendance.

But does your thinking the jokes between two friends are tacky warrant their private info (photos) being posted online?

i didn't even imply that.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#33

Post by chrisfs » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:08 AM UTC

ianschenck wrote: post #26

adriarichards wrote: post #25

Here's context: The guy behind me to the far left was saying he didn't find much value from the logging session that day. I agreed with him, turned around and said so. He then went onto say that an earlier session he'd been to where the speaker was talking about images and visualization with Python was really good, even if it seemed to him the speaker wasn't really an expert on images. He said he would be interested…

Can you please explain, because it seems obvious to you but not to me, how a crass joke about male anatomy is inherently anti-female. Can you also please explain why going public was the best immediate course of action. Lastly, would you have been offended if the joke came out of a female's mouth (as asked below)? I've been in a situation where a young female engineer was in a very abused situation, and it took me a…

I am NOT the OP but I think the answers to your questions are pretty clear. Crass jokes about in the anatomical parts male or female are not appropriate in a professional setting where you don't know everybody who is sitting nearby. There's no need to go into complex discussions about sexual or power dynamics. Immediate action is needed because unlike the workplace there would be no opportunity to speak with these people later

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#34

Post by zshprompt » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:13 AM UTC

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Ugh, this just makes me cringe.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#35

Post by jorgenev » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:25 AM UTC

colabug wrote: post #28

ianschenck wrote: post #24

What just blows my mind, is that Adria keeps referring to this as an issue against females. The comment (as clarified by the terrible perpetrator elsewhere) was about a part of male physiology and not directed towards any person, male or female. She just keeps repeating how this is some sort of female issue. I frankly don't see the connection. I do see how some puritanical folks could be upset, because you know, sex…

Cards Against Humanity is irrelevant to the issue. Also it's not about being puritanical and easily offended. Being a male geek/dork/nerd/outcast in school doesn't excuse behavior that causes a hostile, sexualized, or otherwise unwelcoming environment. I, a female geek, was an outcast too and participated in many of the activities you mention, yet I came out mature. You claim that male engineers (which you referred t…

> I, a female geek, was an outcast too and participated in many of the activities you mention, yet I came out mature.

Perhaps you should try being less insufferable.

The reason why no one should ever give in to this women in tech nonsense is that because the complaints are mostly just a projection of the complainer's own social awkwardness -it is easier to blame other people, and to join causes that attribute your (social) difficulties to things other than yourself. If one complaint is resolved, they will just dream up another -because the content of the complaint is not important to them, it is the act of complaining that sustains them.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#36

Post by jorgenev » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:27 AM UTC

zshprompt wrote: post #34

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Ugh, this just makes me cringe.

Yeah, don't give in.

It just makes you look craven.

I can not believe you lost your job.

You have to laugh at how far things have come. :/

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#37

Post by zshprompt » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:28 AM UTC

adriarichards wrote: post #27

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

Adria, its the photo that's the problem. Using to identify the people in question is OK. Posting it to the internet is wrong.

Unlike your explanation states you did not let the staff resolve it. You took matters into your own hands, and served up justice vigilante style. Just as someone has to watch their mouth, you also have responsibilities. I am sure you are sorry mr-hank lost his job. But just like his dumb ass comments posting photos cannot be undone.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#38

Post by zshprompt » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:30 AM UTC

colabug wrote: post #30

ianschenck wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet later she posts about playing cards against humanity. So Hitler, dead babies, and afterbirth are hilarious but a sexual innuendo is not. Got it.

The card game didn't have the same audience as the comments made. Also you are making assumptions about how she plays the game and what she would find funny.

agreed card game is completely irrelevant in completely different setting. very funny game btw.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#39

Post by jorgenev » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:30 AM UTC

chrisfs wrote: post #33

ianschenck wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain, because it seems obvious to you but not to me, how a crass joke about male anatomy is inherently anti-female. Can you also please explain why going public was the best immediate course of action. Lastly, would you have been offended if the joke came out of a female's mouth (as asked below)? I've been in a situation where a young female engineer was in a very abused situation, and it took me a…

I am NOT the OP but I think the answers to your questions are pretty clear. Crass jokes about in the anatomical parts male or female are not appropriate in a professional setting where you don't know everybody who is sitting nearby. There's no need to go into complex discussions about sexual or power dynamics. Immediate action is needed because unlike the workplace there would be no opportunity to speak with these pe…

How fragile are women, really? It seems amazing to me that they don't all just shatter the day they are born (from what I read on the internet at least).

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#40

Post by zshprompt » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 7:30 AM UTC

colabug wrote: post #15

callahad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quietly informing the authorities does little. As an aside, every PyCon attendee agreed to a code of conduct during registration, and the conference staff are available to address and remedy violations of that code.

I appreciate that PyCon has a good policy and applaud all conferences that make an effort to make their conference a safe place. Through a mix of official (staff) and community enforcement (tweets/public outcry), one day it will be truly welcoming and all members will live up to the code of conduct.

official good. Community enforcement can easily become lynchmob.