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40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

nytimes.com

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Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#31

Post by Mz »

GuiA wrote: post #5

I'm certain I've seen Dr. Miele in the BART before. Everyone (myself included, which I am ashamed of) did everything to not stare at him nor look in his direction– which of course would have been glaringly and awkwardly obvious to anyone observing the scene. Reading this article, his body of work is fascinating. Part of me hopes that if I ever see him again during one of my commutes, I'll have the courage to go up to…

I wonder how aware he was of it and how much he experienced it as socially isolating. When I saw "Shallow Hal," the beautiful thin actress who wore a fat suit for the role of the fat girlfriend tried it out by going to a bar. She was used to being looked at. No one looked at her when she was the fat girl. She remarked in an interview how socially isolating it was. I know he is blind but he is not stupid. I wonder how much of that he notices.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#32

Post by ufmace »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #17
pinaceae wrote: post #10

interesting as this again was done by a deeply disturbed individual, a paranoid schizophrenic. society since then has not gotten better at identifying threats coming from sick people. down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity.

I have no specific evidence but I believe society has gotten better and identifying mental health issues and treating them. >> "down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity" It's up to family and friends to help identify problems someone they know might be having and it's up to the government to provide adequate support and facilities to treat ill people. People…

Reminds me of this article I read after Sandy Hook:

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unth...

It seems that, every time some mentally ill person does something like this, whether it's a big, splashy mass shooting or bombing or something smaller like this acid attack, you later find out that everybody around that person had known for a long time that they were uncontrollably and irrationally violent at times, but nobody could think of anything to do about it. Just like that article - the boy's own mother is pretty sure that he's going to do something horribly violent someday, but nobody has any idea what to do about him, besides getting him thrown in jail.

I suppose it's a hard problem, if you really think about it. Exactly what should the threshold be for having somebody involuntarily committed to some sort of mental hospital or something, and kept there against their will for their entire life, or until some doctor thinks they're safe again? As I understand it, it was fairly low back in the early 20th century, which led to lots of people being committed, some for various versions of being unpopular or eccentric, into mental hospitals that were real horror-shows. What we have now is the backlash against that, which might be too far in the other direction, where it's almost impossible to get someone committed like that until they commit a serious violent crime.

Where's the happy medium? Or is there one? I don't know... but it's something we all ought to think about.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#33

Post by Mz »

ufmace wrote: post #32
k-mcgrady wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no specific evidence but I believe society has gotten better and identifying mental health issues and treating them. >> "down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity" It's up to family and friends to help identify problems someone they know might be having and it's up to the government to provide adequate support and facilities to treat ill people. People…

Reminds me of this article I read after Sandy Hook: http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unth... It seems that, every time some mentally ill person does something like this, whether it's a big, splashy mass shooting or bombing or something smaller like this acid attack, you later find out that everybody around that person had known for a long time that they were uncontrollably and irrationally viol…

"Mental health" outcomes are partly a product of social factors. I have a son who is a sociopath. I pulled him out of school and homeschooled in part to avoid having him be the next Columbine in the news. Kids who are different are often treated so badly they have no reason to cooperate with social norms. It is all downside for them, no upside. My son thinks psychologically tormenting people is funny shit and does not feel bad about it later but he generally refrains. He hasn't been consistently tormented himself, so he doesn't carry a lot of anger or baggage to fuel bad behavior, and I taught him "what goes around, comes around." I don't think these negative outcomes are "inevitable," even with kids who have significant mental and emotional differences from the norm.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#34

Post by DanBC »

dschobel wrote: post #9
d0vs wrote: post #4

What does this have to do with Hacker News?

How hard would it be for HN to filter posts like this? There are only so many permutations of "Why is this here? / What does this have to do with HN?" possible...

There are very many add ons and extensions and things available for HN.

There's bound to be a thread filtering add on for whatever browser you're using.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#35

Post by DanBC »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #25
specialist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my recent personal experience, I don't feel that much has improved. Perhaps society is more accepting of the condition, and less likely to stigmatized. But helping a mentally ill person (in the USA) is pretty much not an option. Perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

>> "But helping a mentally ill person (in the USA) is pretty much not an option." Could you explain why? Here (the UK) there is quite a lot of free help from the health service and there are a lot of charities I know of which provide counselling. Local GP's are also able to work with people and refer them to specialists if necessary.

In England:

A person can go to their GP to get treatment, and the GP will either treat (access to short form talking therapies and some medications), or refer on to a community team.

The community team provides access to heavier duty meds; long form talking therapies; ECT; hospitalisation; a variety of different clinicians, etc etc.

Note that treatment can be forced, and against the patient's wishes. Note also that there's the possibility of community treatment orders. These mean that a person living in the community (not in hospital or prison) could also be forced to take medication regularly.

All of this is free at the point of delivery. (With the exception of prescriptions, but there are so many exemptions they're free to most people.)

And let's not forget that people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime, not the perpetrator.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#36

Post by SoftwareMaven »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #17
pinaceae wrote: post #10

interesting as this again was done by a deeply disturbed individual, a paranoid schizophrenic. society since then has not gotten better at identifying threats coming from sick people. down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity.

I have no specific evidence but I believe society has gotten better and identifying mental health issues and treating them. >> "down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity" It's up to family and friends to help identify problems someone they know might be having and it's up to the government to provide adequate support and facilities to treat ill people. People…

For functioning people with mental illnesses (well treated or not severe), it has gotten better. For non-functioning people, it has gotten worse, for them and for society. I have a loved one with functioning schizophrenia. She has great care and good support through her family (including one of the most loving big brothers I've had the pleasure to meet), her friends, her church and her school.

But I know if she has a true psychotic break, there is little to no support available beyond a 72 hour evaluation. Jail has become the defector storage place outside of the underside of bridges because there are far too few beds for people who need longer term care.

The state hospitals of the 50s were horrid places, but in dismantling them, we've done away with almost all long-term care for people who can't function due to mental illness. And that comes with a huge cost to society. There was a middle ground of "let's improve the care and treatment" that was completely ignored.

But, as a society, let's not talk about that. Let's talk about whether 11 bullets or 14 buckets are too many, even if a fire extinguisher can be shown to be a horrid weapon to somebody ill enough.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#37

Post by _delirium »

monochromatic wrote: post #26
pinaceae wrote: post #10

interesting as this again was done by a deeply disturbed individual, a paranoid schizophrenic. society since then has not gotten better at identifying threats coming from sick people. down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity.

I wonder if there were cries for acid bans in the wake of this.

If it happened enough I could imagine there being some kind of controls. Bulk purchases of certain kinds of fertilizer were controlled post-Oklahoma-City, for example. On a lower level, some jurisdictions have restrictions on spraypaint sales, in an effort to combat graffiti.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#38

Post by joshschreuder »

Mz wrote: post #31
GuiA wrote: post #5

I'm certain I've seen Dr. Miele in the BART before. Everyone (myself included, which I am ashamed of) did everything to not stare at him nor look in his direction– which of course would have been glaringly and awkwardly obvious to anyone observing the scene. Reading this article, his body of work is fascinating. Part of me hopes that if I ever see him again during one of my commutes, I'll have the courage to go up to…

I wonder how aware he was of it and how much he experienced it as socially isolating. When I saw "Shallow Hal," the beautiful thin actress who wore a fat suit for the role of the fat girlfriend tried it out by going to a bar. She was used to being looked at. No one looked at her when she was the fat girl. She remarked in an interview how socially isolating it was. I know he is blind but he is not stupid. I wonder how…

But a thin girl in a fat costume knows what it's like to be thin and socially active. It makes it more jarring to go from one extreme to the other (as it would be for an overweight person who was ignored to suddenly become the centre of attention).

By that same token, I don't know if Dr. Miele would notice much of it, because he has been isolated in public from such a young age.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#39

Post by Mz »

joshschreuder wrote: post #38
Mz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how aware he was of it and how much he experienced it as socially isolating. When I saw "Shallow Hal," the beautiful thin actress who wore a fat suit for the role of the fat girlfriend tried it out by going to a bar. She was used to being looked at. No one looked at her when she was the fat girl. She remarked in an interview how socially isolating it was. I know he is blind but he is not stupid. I wonder how…

But a thin girl in a fat costume knows what it's like to be thin and socially active. It makes it more jarring to go from one extreme to the other (as it would be for an overweight person who was ignored to suddenly become the centre of attention). By that same token, I don't know if Dr. Miele would notice much of it, because he has been isolated in public from such a young age.

I am handicapped and so are my sons. We are "normal" to each other. I forget how impaired my oldest son is. When he runs into something which trips him up, I am often jarringly reminded. The article suggests Dr. Miele likely experiences a "normal" home life and is sensitive to the detail of wanting to be known for the right reasons. He may not be painfully aware of how strangers react, because he is used to it. Or it might be like a constant annoyance which grates all the more for having gone on so long. It would be interesting to hear his take on it.

Re: 40 Years After an Acid Attack, a Life Well Lived

#40

Post by pyre »

Mz wrote: post #24
specialist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my recent personal experience, I don't feel that much has improved. Perhaps society is more accepting of the condition, and less likely to stigmatized. But helping a mentally ill person (in the USA) is pretty much not an option. Perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

I think that depends on how you frame the problem. It helps to start with wondering why they do things instead of labeling them "mentally ill" from the get go. But I am sorry to hear of your frustrations. That is intended to be a helpful observation, not a criticism.

Well, labelling someone as mentally ill is at least a step up from the people the believe stuff like, "I was depressed once, but pulled myself up by the bootstraps, therefore all this depression stuff is a bunch of hogwash!"
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