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Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

emergency.mit.net

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Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#31

Post by bediger4000 »

cbau wrote: post #7
fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

It's pretty simple-- As an American, I have a right to the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't want to give up any rights I don't have to. That includes the freedom to buy and carry a gun.

As another American, I don't think that's quite it, as we (Americans) have essentially given up some of your other rights: we don't really have a right to be secure against arbitrary search and seizure any more, and we don't have much of a right to due process any more. We're shaving our freedom of speech thinner too.

So: why is the 4th Amendment right to keep and bear arms defended so zealously, and interpreted so liberally, when the wording around other rights, which are quite clear and simple, is interpreted in a non-obvious, often seemingly irrational manner so as to prevent people from exercizing those rights?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#32

Post by buster »

cbau wrote: post #7
fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

It's pretty simple-- As an American, I have a right to the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't want to give up any rights I don't have to. That includes the freedom to buy and carry a gun.

I'm not american but i think my own right for life, liberty and happiness would be violated being surrounded by weapon fanatics.. I really don't understand all that "uh, i need to defend myself" bullshit when i look at all the safe western countries with much stricter weapon laws. I think this is all not a matter of rights or self-defense or all that crap people tell me, it's just that most people can't cope with change ("no, don't take away my toy, buhuhuhu!") plus a billion dollar weapon industry.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#33

Post by knowtheory »

kiba wrote: post #22
fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

I mean this just doesn't add up. There's some reason you have police, military, para-military and federal agencies so that citizens don't have to handle this aspect of security. The poor latency of police response means that rampage killers(or anybody bent on harming anybody, really) can get away with killing several unarmed civilians before they can be stopped. In theory, concealed carry individuals can put a stop t…

You know what else works?

Locked doors. More guns is not the only, nor necessarily the most effective, solution.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#34

Post by Symmetry »

maeon3 wrote: post #17

Could it be a stunt by a particularly intuitive student to prevent a shooting incident by creating a false alarm, to get everyone to tighten up security, thus reducing the probability of an actual shooter event really happening? Shooters are probably smart enough to pick their targets, and they would be unwise to pick one that's on edge from a recent incident.

Or it could have been someone carrying a pipe which the witness mistook for a gun from a distance. I believe the last time there was a report of a gunfight on campus, the shooters turned out to have Nerf weapons...

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#35

Post by 89vision »

snitko wrote: post #24
89vision wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your freedom to buy and carry a gun infringes on my right to feel safe in public

You feeling unsafe has nothing to do with rights. Lots of people feel unsafe around clowns. Let's just ban clowns.

> Let's just ban clowns.

yes, this

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#36

Post by diegocg »

cbau wrote: post #7
fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

It's pretty simple-- As an American, I have a right to the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't want to give up any rights I don't have to. That includes the freedom to buy and carry a gun.

That "libertarianesque" definicion of freedom commonly used in America is not shared or understood by many countries (not that it matters to americans, of course)

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#37

Post by knowtheory »

monochromatic wrote: post #25
knowtheory wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They almost certainly mean "long arm/gun", e.g. not a handgun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_gun

Yes, I know. Just pointing out the typical mislabeling that always happens... kind of surprised they didn't call it a Glock.

You're seriously criticizing an emergency release?

It was posted as an emergency and they get the point across, do we really need the nit-picking?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#39

Post by snitko »

knowtheory wrote: post #27
snitko wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the part a lot of people fail to understand. The mere existence of police that is supposed to protect people doesn't mean everyone in the society agrees to transfer all of those functions to it. Assuming that is pure ignorance. It still gets pretty hilarious when you ask to see your signature under this mythical social contract everyone supposedly signed.

And the failure of others to recognize that they live in a society and that their actions have an effect on others is just as obnoxious. You may be happy to take your chances and own and carry a firearm, but why should I , or any other bystander, have to take your chances?

Same logic can be applied to your argument. Why should I take your chances and rely on the police instead of myself to be able to protect me? Convince me (rather than order me) I would be better off without it - and I could voluntarily change my mind.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#40

Post by johngunderman »

fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

A large part of this is that the Second Amendment to the US Constitution explicitly protects people's right to bear arms. This has led to gun-ownership being an important topic to many American citizens, initially by people using to utilize guns (ranch rifles, etc) and then by collectors and other hobbyists.

As for your second question, the difficultly of obtaining a gun in the US varies largely by state. However, it generally is not exceedingly difficult. As an example, here is how purchasing a firearm works in California:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California#Firearm_...

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