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College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

nytimes.com

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Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#31

Post by niggler »

jtreminio wrote: post #6

Being a web developer often times feels like I live in backwards land. I went to UTD for 1.5 semesters. I ended up with $2,000 in student loans (paid off!). I make a stupid amount of money, work from home in my pajamas, and have great benefits. I also do contract work on the side that pushes my income even higher. To top it all off, I love what I do and can't imagine myself doing anything else. Compare that with frie…

The degrees are important when it's difficult to demonstrate skill. When you can't put together a portfolio of work, you need external signals, and pedigree is a commonly accepted signal (to a great extent, due to the fact that those with a strong pedigree are usually the ones hiring and they promulgate that type of thinking)

Web development is one area where its possible to construct a portfolio and have others evaluate your work, which makes the degree a less relevant part of the evaluation process.

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#32

Post by [deleted] »

jtreminio wrote: post #6

Being a web developer often times feels like I live in backwards land. I went to UTD for 1.5 semesters. I ended up with $2,000 in student loans (paid off!). I make a stupid amount of money, work from home in my pajamas, and have great benefits. I also do contract work on the side that pushes my income even higher. To top it all off, I love what I do and can't imagine myself doing anything else. Compare that with frie…

[deleted]

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#33

Post by niggler »

The article misses a very important point: in the economy of 2013 in the US (outside of silicon valley), labor supply far outstrips demand. The employers can afford to be picky, and there's some truth to the idea that the college student will work harder at the lower level jobs because they are saddled with debt (and are less likely to have flexibility).

Ironically, there is a similar practice in finance where bosses and companies help their top employees live beyond their means so that they will be "forced" to continue working.

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#34

Post by arjunnarayan »

montecarl wrote: post #15
SlipperySlope wrote: post #10

Did this catch the attention of anyone else? “I am over $100,000 in student loan debt right now,” said Megan Parker, who earns $37,000 as the firm’s receptionist. She graduated from the Art Institute of Atlanta in 2011 with a degree in fashion and retail management, and spent months waiting on “bridezillas” at a couture boutique, among other stores, while churning out office-job applications. ----- Something is very,…

Something is wrong with people that that they choose to go to schools that cost $100,000 to get degrees in fashion and/or retail management.

Something is really wrong with a regime that _lends_ an 18 year old $100,000 for an art degree. This is only possible because the lender is guaranteed paybacks no matter what (because the borrower cannot default).

If we let borrowers default on loans under certain criteria (say, their annual income was below a certain threshold), then lenders would have to actually vet the students degrees --- and then we might have a sane system where you're denied a student loan if you're going to major in underwater basket weaving, but approved if you major in engineering.

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#35

Post by achille2 »

jtreminio wrote: post #6

Being a web developer often times feels like I live in backwards land. I went to UTD for 1.5 semesters. I ended up with $2,000 in student loans (paid off!). I make a stupid amount of money, work from home in my pajamas, and have great benefits. I also do contract work on the side that pushes my income even higher. To top it all off, I love what I do and can't imagine myself doing anything else. Compare that with frie…

Just curious what do you consider 'stupid amount of money'?

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#36

Post by jtreminio »

achille2 wrote: post #35
jtreminio wrote: post #6

Being a web developer often times feels like I live in backwards land. I went to UTD for 1.5 semesters. I ended up with $2,000 in student loans (paid off!). I make a stupid amount of money, work from home in my pajamas, and have great benefits. I also do contract work on the side that pushes my income even higher. To top it all off, I love what I do and can't imagine myself doing anything else. Compare that with frie…

Just curious what do you consider 'stupid amount of money'?

Last year I cleared 115k. This year is shaping up to be a bit better.

It's not a huge amount of money to many other people, but I consider it quite high for having no real formal education in my chosen career... plus loving what I do!

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#37

Post by spamizbad »

montecarl wrote: post #15
SlipperySlope wrote: post #10

Did this catch the attention of anyone else? “I am over $100,000 in student loan debt right now,” said Megan Parker, who earns $37,000 as the firm’s receptionist. She graduated from the Art Institute of Atlanta in 2011 with a degree in fashion and retail management, and spent months waiting on “bridezillas” at a couture boutique, among other stores, while churning out office-job applications. ----- Something is very,…

Something is wrong with people that that they choose to go to schools that cost $100,000 to get degrees in fashion and/or retail management.

The rhetoric I heard from both my parents, my teachers, and my guidance consoler during my junior and senior year in high school (2000-2001) was "Employers want a college degree. It doesn't matter what degree you get, unless you want to do STEM, so pick something that interests you. College really just signals to an employer that you 'know how to learn.'"

The first part is mostly true: employers want a college degree. The second part is also true: STEM (with the exception of software development) tends to prefer people with specific degrees. The third part, however, is total bullshit, and it got A LOT of people into a A LOT of debt. The reality is employers are incredibly picky not just over a candidate's degree, but these days they're much less willing to invest in employee training. They want candidates who can show up and do the job on day 1.

My hunch is that lot of the college advice was doled out to students based upon the Baby Boomer's understanding of the world: College degrees are a hot item employers want, and they (usually) don't care what it's in! The employer will train you at your job and you just need the necessary reading, writing, and math skills. This probably was the case in the 1960s, 70s, and early 80s but by the 90s things had changed.

(As an aside- I ended up dropping out of college after 1.5 years and avoided debt. Opportunity knocked and probably saved me from tons of debt).

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#38

Post by nestlequ1k »

arjunnarayan wrote: post #34
montecarl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something is wrong with people that that they choose to go to schools that cost $100,000 to get degrees in fashion and/or retail management.

Something is really wrong with a regime that _lends_ an 18 year old $100,000 for an art degree. This is only possible because the lender is guaranteed paybacks no matter what (because the borrower cannot default). If we let borrowers default on loans under certain criteria (say, their annual income was below a certain threshold), then lenders would have to actually vet the students degrees --- and then we might have…

But can you imagine this world? Where you are sending your transcripts to the bank, proving to them that not only will you finish college, but be able to get a job afterwards.

And every month in college having to send your grades to them so they can be sure you're still a good investment.

It makes sense to me but... can you imagine the feelings that would be hurt by this?

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#39

Post by shanemhansen »

jtreminio wrote: post #6

Being a web developer often times feels like I live in backwards land. I went to UTD for 1.5 semesters. I ended up with $2,000 in student loans (paid off!). I make a stupid amount of money, work from home in my pajamas, and have great benefits. I also do contract work on the side that pushes my income even higher. To top it all off, I love what I do and can't imagine myself doing anything else. Compare that with frie…

I live in Utah, and here I've noticed the same trends. A bachelors degree for Science/Math is not enough to land a "good" job. Where good is defined by me as over 50k and promotion opportunities. Employers weed out based on possession of a bachelors degree.

However, the market for software engineers is much more merit based right now. Many good engineering jobs that pay 6 figures require "a bachelors degree in a technical field or equivalent experience".

I'll be the first one to argue that attending a university is a good idea for someone who want to call him/herself a developer, but lack of a degree is not a showstopper to a great job. The reality though is that if/when the market for engineers slows down, employers will probably begin to apply the same filters. Even if a degree isn't required today, it might be a necessity in 5 years for someone starting out.

Re: College Degree Required by Increasing Number of Companies

#40

Post by numo16 »

nestlequ1k wrote: post #38
arjunnarayan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something is really wrong with a regime that _lends_ an 18 year old $100,000 for an art degree. This is only possible because the lender is guaranteed paybacks no matter what (because the borrower cannot default). If we let borrowers default on loans under certain criteria (say, their annual income was below a certain threshold), then lenders would have to actually vet the students degrees --- and then we might have…

But can you imagine this world? Where you are sending your transcripts to the bank, proving to them that not only will you finish college, but be able to get a job afterwards. And every month in college having to send your grades to them so they can be sure you're still a good investment. It makes sense to me but... can you imagine the feelings that would be hurt by this?

Maybe feelings need to be hurt...A lot of people expect things to just be handed to them these days, especially with the "everybody is a winner" culture that is pushed in the elementary schools currently.
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