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WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

ejohn.org

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Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#31

Post by oinksoft »

jeresig wrote: post #21
oinksoft wrote: post #13

In the case of JavaScript libraries virtually everyone has standardized upon jQuery at this point. This guy really lives on his own planet. Maybe most websites that only need to add a small piece of JS functionality are using jQuery, but I seriously doubt that "virtually everyone" writing large JS projects is using jQuery. Google Closure Tools, Sencha/ExtJS, and MooTools remain quite popular, and a host of developers…

I don't think this is particularly controversial opinion to have at this point: http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript/jQuery http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript

Most websites fall into the former "only need to add a small piece of JS functionality are using jQuery" category. A whole lot of websites include jQuery in default frontend templates and don't even use it on the public-facing website (Drupal, WordPress, other software that has a huge installed base).

Vague deployment statistics mean very little.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#32

Post by flyosity »

oinksoft wrote: post #26
phpnode wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's living on his own planet, he's actually right - jQuery runs the client side web. Not for everyone but easily 90% of sites (that actually have javascript functionality at all) will use jQuery

Rather, the practice of providing a DOM API compatibility layer runs the web, jQuery being the most widely used library of this sort. When you step out of the god-object API jQuery provides and look at the internals, jQuery, MooTools, and Closure look surprisingly similar. I find the latter to provide the best compatibility (so does Google), but that is another discussion altogether.

Your opinions on what JavaScript libraries provide "the best compatibility" has little bearing on your original statement, that jQuery is not as popular as it actually is.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#33

Post by dasil003 »

mmatants wrote: post #14
cs702 wrote: post #4

WebKit and jQuery -- and Bootstrap -- are becoming the new 'Win32 API.'

The cool part about jQuery is that I don't have to use it . Same with Bootstrap. So it's not a needless tyranny. With browser engines things get a little more political - mono-culture is not a good thing. But at least Firefox holds enough of a market share, and of course IE is now a much better player in this space - so WebKit can't get away with too much silliness.

Theoretically yes, mono-culture is not a good thing. Having more from-scratch rendering engines would be good for the robustness of web standards. However web standards are hugely complex at this point and it becomes increasingly infeasible to implement from scratch. With WebKit at least you have an open-source pluggable engine, so you're not talking about branded product monopolies where one or two bad actors can foul things up for everyone. An IE6-like scenario is completely impossible with WebKit.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#34

Post by flyosity »

oinksoft wrote: post #31
jeresig wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is particularly controversial opinion to have at this point: http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript/jQuery http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript

Most websites fall into the former "only need to add a small piece of JS functionality are using jQuery" category. A whole lot of websites include jQuery in default frontend templates and don't even use it on the public-facing website (Drupal, WordPress, other software that has a huge installed base). Vague deployment statistics mean very little.

I'm not sure what you are saying. That people have jQuery loaded on their websites but aren't using it? If that's your argument, then that's now a wholly separate argument. jQuery having a huge installed base is what we're talking about, and is what John was referring to. Seems like you are changing your stance now that it's fairly obvious your assertion was incorrect in the face of research.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#35

Post by [deleted] »

flyosity wrote: post #32
oinksoft wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather, the practice of providing a DOM API compatibility layer runs the web, jQuery being the most widely used library of this sort. When you step out of the god-object API jQuery provides and look at the internals, jQuery, MooTools, and Closure look surprisingly similar. I find the latter to provide the best compatibility (so does Google), but that is another discussion altogether.

Your opinions on what JavaScript libraries provide "the best compatibility" has little bearing on your original statement, that jQuery is not as popular as it actually is.

[deleted]

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#36

Post by phpnode »

oinksoft wrote: post #31
jeresig wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is particularly controversial opinion to have at this point: http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript/jQuery http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript

Most websites fall into the former "only need to add a small piece of JS functionality are using jQuery" category. A whole lot of websites include jQuery in default frontend templates and don't even use it on the public-facing website (Drupal, WordPress, other software that has a huge installed base). Vague deployment statistics mean very little.

Clearly you have some kind of issue with jQuery but just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less popular, useful or prevalent. Here's a fun drinking game - open up the top 1000 websites and do a shot for each one that uses jQuery. You will be in hospital by about #20 I think.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#37

Post by sigzero »

gcp wrote: post #8
fideloper wrote: post #3

Not to derail the topic, but did anyone else read that headline as a negative, only to find that it wasn't (necessarily)?

Maybe it depends on what your view of jQuery is: In the case of JavaScript libraries virtually everyone has standardized upon jQuery at this point. In other words, as far as he cares things other than jQuery don't have a right of existence. Although it's very popular it's probably even more arguable if there aren't better JavaScript frameworks than jQuery, compared to whether there are better rendering engines than W…

"In other words, as far as he cares things other than jQuery don't have a right of existence."

I don't think he made that point at all. He is merely reflecting on the fact that jQuery has the most market share and by a long way.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#38

Post by oinksoft »

phpnode wrote: post #36
oinksoft wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most websites fall into the former "only need to add a small piece of JS functionality are using jQuery" category. A whole lot of websites include jQuery in default frontend templates and don't even use it on the public-facing website (Drupal, WordPress, other software that has a huge installed base). Vague deployment statistics mean very little.

Clearly you have some kind of issue with jQuery but just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less popular, useful or prevalent. Here's a fun drinking game - open up the top 1000 websites and do a shot for each one that uses jQuery. You will be in hospital by about #20 I think.

None of the top five websites use jQuery.

Of the top 20, I've got one fifth of them using jQuery: Amazon, eBay, Wikipedia, and MSN. Not in the hospital yet.

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#39

Post by phpnode »

oinksoft wrote: post #38
phpnode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly you have some kind of issue with jQuery but just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less popular, useful or prevalent. Here's a fun drinking game - open up the top 1000 websites and do a shot for each one that uses jQuery. You will be in hospital by about #20 I think.

None of the top five websites use jQuery. Of the top 20, I've got one fifth of them using jQuery: Amazon, eBay, Wikipedia, and MSN. Not in the hospital yet.

but still the majority of them do, by a wide margin. I don't even know why you're debating this, it's completely obvious that jQuery has by far the largest mindshare.

edit: ok now I get it, I had a look at your website. You like Closure so jQuery must suck, right? Also I would be in the hospital after 5 shots....

Re: WebKit is the jQuery of Browser Engines

#40

Post by oinksoft »

phpnode wrote: post #39
oinksoft wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the top five websites use jQuery. Of the top 20, I've got one fifth of them using jQuery: Amazon, eBay, Wikipedia, and MSN. Not in the hospital yet.

but still the majority of them do, by a wide margin. I don't even know why you're debating this, it's completely obvious that jQuery has by far the largest mindshare. edit: ok now I get it, I had a look at your website. You like Closure so jQuery must suck, right? Also I would be in the hospital after 5 shots....

Well, don't provide a test like "you'll be in the hospital by #20" if you haven't vetted the results of it first.

My personal advocacy for the Closure Tools does not discredit my views on other tools, and I'm hoping this ad hominem nonsense doesn't fly in such a forum. Quite a few people come into the IRC channel and are using the Closure Compiler with jQuery and I don't give them shit. I take no issue with you using, liking, preferring jQuery.

You know why I like Closure? Because it makes the hard things possible. When you're talking about JavaScript running the web, it's websites like Gmail that matter the most. And you'd have a hell of a time getting Gmail to run as smoothy as it does using a library like jQuery, or even ExtJS.

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