The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded • Hacker News Board

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#31

Post by daemin » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:05 AM UTC

indecision wrote: post #20

I was recently involved in an ACS "Re-accreditation" review for my University which I graduated from in 2011. It was clear from the outset that the whole thing was a farce - to be re-accredited required the ACS to ask past students generic questions (such as "How important is ethics to an IT Professional") and for us to give canned answers. While the university didn't explicitly tell us to give the 'expected' answers…

I did one of these a few years ago and it seemed like quite a formality, they asked vague questions about topics related to professionalism rather than any technical skill.

While I can understand that a professional body would want to ensure that people acted ethically and in good faith, I would think that it would be wiser to ensure that people graduating from technical, engineering related, and detail oriented degrees were just that. That way having an ACS seal of approval on a degree would carry some sort of weight towards the technical quality of the person, and hence would actually mean something.

Maybe it's the spaces and people I work with, but no one that I have worked with is actually a member of the ACS, despite being in industry for almost a decade.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#32

Post by Wingman4l7 » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

onethree wrote: post #28

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #3

All that about the pamphlet, not a big deal. But the payments at the end for accreditation? That seems to be a worse offense. Of course, if companies are only accepting applicants accredited by the ACS, they must be missing out on SOME people.

i can't say i know of many companies that exclude people because theyre not members of the ACS. I work for an investment bank, and i have friends from uni who work everywhere from the IT department at one of our supermarket chains to the big 4 audit firms, and i don't know of any who actually have ACS accreditation

I would take it a step further and bet that none of those employers have even heard of the ACS, unless they've tried to hire people and sponsor them with a skilled worker visa.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#33

Post by jacques_chester » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

indecision wrote: post #20

I was recently involved in an ACS "Re-accreditation" review for my University which I graduated from in 2011. It was clear from the outset that the whole thing was a farce - to be re-accredited required the ACS to ask past students generic questions (such as "How important is ethics to an IT Professional") and for us to give canned answers. While the university didn't explicitly tell us to give the 'expected' answers…

Professional ethics at my university was one lecture.

Of the basic form:

"Here is the Code. Read it some time."

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#34

Post by jpatokal » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:08 AM UTC

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #19

tomcorrigan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes This is patently false > this leads to urban decay and property abandonment on a massive scale Australia does not have property abandonment nor urban decay on a massive scale. Go to Detroit to witness such things.

10.2% (2011 census data) of Australian properties are sitting there vacant. [ http://blog.id.com.au/2012/australian-census-2011/the-where-... ] And there is certainly urban decay all over the city I live in (Perth). Also, building codes are local government, aren't they? So it depends on what council you are in. And I've certainly heard some bad stories.

As your link itself explains, the vast majority of those vacant properties are either a) holiday homes that are empty outside vacation season, or b) "areas with declining population where dwellings are simply abandoned by owners who can’t sell their property". Vacancy rates in major cities are remarkably low.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#35

Post by throwaway2048 » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:09 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #16

tomcorrigan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes This is patently false > this leads to urban decay and property abandonment on a massive scale Australia does not have property abandonment nor urban decay on a massive scale. Go to Detroit to witness such things.

Rent control is usually one cause of urban blight. We don't have that in Australia.

Rent control may have been a factor in many major American cities, but it is far from the only contributor. Australian cities currently have many of the same structural problems that lead to these issues in American cities in the sixties seventies and eighties.

Suburbanization tied with ridgid regulations that make property development or improvement extremely costly lead to a downward spiral in property values, which means of obtaining loans insurance or other guarantees becomes nearly impossible, meaning even less redevelopment, more decay, and more crime, accelerating further suburbanization.

this feedback loop decimate inner cities.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#36

Post by daemin » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:09 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #12

I basically joined the ACS because it's there and I figured I ought to. They gave me a post-nominal: CT. If I want the next grade up -- CP -- I will need to take thousands of dollars of synergising-outside-the-box courses. Basically the ACS isn't really for software engineers. It's for middle management. I won't be renewing. (I might renew my ACM/IEEE memberships).

I briefly thought about joining the ACS, but really no one that I've worked with has paid for membership (I think one person had won a membership).

In software it is just not needed, especially since a lot of the people I have worked with have other degrees outside the areas of electrical/electronic engineering and computer science.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#37

Post by jacques_chester » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:09 AM UTC

daemin wrote: post #31

indecision wrote: post #20

I was recently involved in an ACS "Re-accreditation" review for my University which I graduated from in 2011. It was clear from the outset that the whole thing was a farce - to be re-accredited required the ACS to ask past students generic questions (such as "How important is ethics to an IT Professional") and for us to give canned answers. While the university didn't explicitly tell us to give the 'expected' answers…

I did one of these a few years ago and it seemed like quite a formality, they asked vague questions about topics related to professionalism rather than any technical skill. While I can understand that a professional body would want to ensure that people acted ethically and in good faith, I would think that it would be wiser to ensure that people graduating from technical, engineering related, and detail oriented degr…

The reason they hammer on the Code of Ethics is because that's what other professions have.

They need to show that there's some Code that could be made enforceable by legislation. It's part of the bigger plan to lever the ACS into the same role that the law societies or the AMA enjoy.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#38

Post by jacques_chester » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:10 AM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #35

jacques_chester wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control is usually one cause of urban blight. We don't have that in Australia.

Rent control may have been a factor in many major American cities, but it is far from the only contributor. Australian cities currently have many of the same structural problems that lead to these issues in American cities in the sixties seventies and eighties. Suburbanization tied with ridgid regulations that make property development or improvement extremely costly lead to a downward spiral in property values, whic…

> rent control may have been a factor in many major American cities, but it is far from the only contributor.

Right. Hence why I said "one cause".

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#39

Post by jedmeyers » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:10 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #15

I think I can explain the Electrical Engineering thing. A few years ago the ACS geared up to join some sort of peak body for professions. They took the view that they should represent all software professionals of any kind. Then Engineers Australia put in a competing claim for jurisdiction over software engineers. The scoundrels . I remember this because I was a student member at the time (hey, free BBQs) and they se…

Technically you can get your profession recognized by Engineers Australia even if you are a software engineer. You will not get the most relevant code for your profession though, and most probably will not be able to get a visa in the end. However it worked for me back in 2010.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#40

Post by verelo » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 3:13 AM UTC

I'd love to hear Matt's views on TAFE, i think accreditation has a very important place in our society (mainly because i got very sick of uneducated morons charging people for fixing computers, writing bad code...etc)

Anyway, the fact that Matt is complaining about fees and then is happy to be associated with the Singularity University that chargs $25k for a course (http://apply2013.singularityu.org/res/p/faq/) makes me wonder if hes just mad that they cant compete with courses provided by organizations such as TAFE.

In general, this all makes me mad. Matt just seems very outspoken and is giving Australia a bad rep in general.