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The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.de

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Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#31

Post by OGinparadise »

adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

Is there anything we can do? I'm sure there is, I just don't know what. Ugh.

Not really, they are armed to the teeth. The West tried once as you mentioned and if we try again, Seoul will probably be leveled in minutes and untold millions might die in both sides. The West had much smaller countries to liberate and did jack.

When you are, by pure randomness, lucky enough to be living in a part of the world where these horrible acts are distant enough to barely register on the press radar, reading about these things do seem unfathomable, almost fake.

They are hundreds of millions that lived through them in Eastern Europe so it's not new. Maybe NK is a bit harsher but the same principle applies.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#32

Post by OGinparadise »

ars wrote: post #24
Sulfolobus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the "visiting North Korea" stuff. You are directly funding the regime.

You are, but ignoring things and people never visiting would be worse.

You are, but ignoring things and people never visiting would be worse.

Worse for the regime, yes. They need foreign currency and need to spalsh famous faces on TV "XX came to our wonderful country and was surprised at...". If you think that Erik Schmidt or his daughter know jack about NK and how life is because of their visit, I have a bridge...

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#33

Post by nandemo »

Sulfolobus wrote: post #20
adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

This is why I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the "visiting North Korea" stuff. You are directly funding the regime.

I understand one might refuse to go there out of principle, but on monetary terms alone I think it doesn't matter. The income from tourism is irrelevant for NK.

Besides trade with (and possibly significant aid from) China, NK gets hard currency from selling arms to other countries, and illegal activities such as counterfeiting, smuggling and drug traffic.

http://theconversation.edu.au/north-koreas-basketcase-econom...

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#34

Post by nandemo »

adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

You could join or donate to a NGO that helps North Korean defectors. Some help North Koreans who are living in South Korea, Japan, or elsewhere. Some actively help people escape to those countries after they have crossed the Chinese border.

I know of a couple such organizations in Japan. You could try and find one in your country.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#35

Post by nodata »

adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

Is there anything we can do? I'm sure there is, I just don't know what. Ugh.

Anyone?

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#36

Post by nikster »

Sulfolobus wrote: post #20
adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

This is why I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the "visiting North Korea" stuff. You are directly funding the regime.

Its still always better to go there; it was like this in Burma (before they opened up); and it is like this in North Korea. The more contact there is with the outside world, the quicker things will change.

A boycott only helps the people in power.

I have a feeling things will soon change in N Korea. Its not any specific information I have read, its just a collective pressure that weakens those regimes and those who support them.

Take Burma as an example - the leadership got sick of the failed state, the abysmal economy, the boycott against regime sons and daughters - an absolutely brillant plan whereby countries simply dont accept sons, daughters, and other family members of dictatorships; this hits where it hurts, on a personal level, when you might the the king in your country with $Bns stolen from the people in a bank account but your daughter cant go to school in Australia or fly to Paris. I wish more countries would participate.

Back to Burma, I followed that situation for years and it seemed completely hopeless. But then the Burmese leadership faced a situation: Either change and open to the west or get bought out by China. They didnt want China to come in and own the country so they opened up, and now all sorts of good things happen.

Russia is already uninterested in N Korea - maybe there is some strategic benefit but they wont go so far as to send money. And China, it seems like, wont need them much either anymore, seeing as they are now the worlds factory and they benefit from commerce much more than they ever could from confrontation. China might fall away as an ally and then N Korea is going to reform.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#37

Post by contingencies »

If you are curious about North Korea, just look across the border from China. You can see plenty. Near the town of Changbaishan (and slightly west of there) is the best area. You're only a few meters across the river, and you can see everything, even a full scale city. If you're a train nut, you can even satisfy your curiosity by seeing a failed short-haul train the North Koreans took years to build. There's no need to go there and fund them.
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