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The Problem with Kickstarter

xconomy.com

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Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#31

Post by dopamean »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #29
bryanlarsen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pledge to buy something can be converted into money. In traditional industries it's quite common to get bank loans against accounts receivable and/or outstanding purchase orders. Without a history of delivering product, a bank won't give you a loan against pledges (aka PO's), but there certainly should be lots of people who would give you a loan or buy equity. If you can say to a VC "I've got a million dollars wort…

You really think a bank would give loans against Kickstarter agreements to purchase something?

I think that's his point. A bank wouldn't do that if you did not have a history of delivering.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#32

Post by paulgerhardt »

dpryan wrote: post #19
pdx wrote: post #18

Hardware is expensive. Plastic injection tooling, PCB fabrication, PCB assembly, component purchases, FCC and EU and UL testing and certifications. Something like Kickstarter makes it possible for an engineer, such as myself, who does not have $200K in the bank, to use the skills I use every day for large companies, and create something new in the world. For somebody to suggest that the one endeavor that needs Kickst…

Exactly. Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. The article is opening up a discussion for alternative models that work better than Kickstarter. The problem with Kickstarter's approach is that oftentimes, the reality of the product is divorced from the perception of the product. There are countless examples of high profile hardware products that failed to deliver on expectations. That hurts the Kickstarter br…

> Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything.

If you can demonstrate demand, funding will become a second order problem.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#33

Post by [deleted] »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #32
dpryan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. The article is opening up a discussion for alternative models that work better than Kickstarter. The problem with Kickstarter's approach is that oftentimes, the reality of the product is divorced from the perception of the product. There are countless examples of high profile hardware products that failed to deliver on expectations. That hurts the Kickstarter br…

> Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. If you can demonstrate demand, funding will become a second order problem.

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#34

Post by [deleted] »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #32
dpryan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. The article is opening up a discussion for alternative models that work better than Kickstarter. The problem with Kickstarter's approach is that oftentimes, the reality of the product is divorced from the perception of the product. There are countless examples of high profile hardware products that failed to deliver on expectations. That hurts the Kickstarter br…

> Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. If you can demonstrate demand, funding will become a second order problem.

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#35

Post by aganick »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #32
dpryan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. The article is opening up a discussion for alternative models that work better than Kickstarter. The problem with Kickstarter's approach is that oftentimes, the reality of the product is divorced from the perception of the product. There are countless examples of high profile hardware products that failed to deliver on expectations. That hurts the Kickstarter br…

> Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. If you can demonstrate demand, funding will become a second order problem.

If this were true, would we not see more truly hardware startups in existence? There are countless hardware products that have demand, yet go unfunded or are not attractive to VC's because of the large upfront costs or various market / IP concerns. Ever tried to develop and then manufacture an ASIC before?

Hardware is just that, "hard". Crowd funding, or crowd "pre-ordering" is just one approach to give these types of companies a fighting chance at marketing and developing a product. If it were not for the lack of project accountability and poor hardware track record, I think Kickstarter would be a very good solution towards some of these issues.

Unfortunately until this changes, I think backers might have a better chance at the casinos. At least you have fun losing your money there (usually)!

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#36

Post by DoubleCluster »

dpryan wrote: post #12
rnernento wrote: post #10

Can we talk about bytelight? What the heck does that thing do?

Indoor positioning using LED lights. Our market is in enterprise (not the home). We're using selfstarter to experiment if there's enough demand for individual developer/hacker kits. It's not economical for us to sell small orders unless they're batched together.

You've got a nice site but I think the product is not useful enough. You've got to install those bulbs and any enterprise I've been in uses fluorescent lights and not the classic fittings. I couldn't even use those in my home.

If you want a mobile device to locate itself indoors, why not use WiFi? Probably the entire place is flooded with access points already.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#37

Post by rnernento »

dpryan wrote: post #12
rnernento wrote: post #10

Can we talk about bytelight? What the heck does that thing do?

Indoor positioning using LED lights. Our market is in enterprise (not the home). We're using selfstarter to experiment if there's enough demand for individual developer/hacker kits. It's not economical for us to sell small orders unless they're batched together.

So If I outfit my home with these lights, (which are also functional for lighting?) I can leverage them to locate what? Anything with a camera?

The site is strong so I'm intrigued but I have no idea what a practical application of this would be. I take it you guys don't either? :p

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#38

Post by paulgerhardt »

aganick wrote: post #35
paulgerhardt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hardware needs pre-funding more than anything. If you can demonstrate demand, funding will become a second order problem.

If this were true, would we not see more truly hardware startups in existence? There are countless hardware products that have demand, yet go unfunded or are not attractive to VC's because of the large upfront costs or various market / IP concerns. Ever tried to develop and then manufacture an ASIC before? Hardware is just that, "hard". Crowd funding, or crowd "pre-ordering" is just one approach to give these types o…

I think there are plenty of reasons one does not see more hardware startups, but I would argue that 'lack of funds' is more likely being used as an excuse to mask deeper problems.

One can expect bad things in any venture where the development costs exceed the expected return. If anything, this would be an argument for general purpose computing and not shouldering the cost of developing an ASIC.

If you would like to see a Kickstarter with better project accountability and a hardware focus I suggest looking at Christie Street: https://christiestreet.com

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#39

Post by robomartin »

robomartin wrote: post #30
Bradosaur wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you engage them? Do you know someone? When I got rejected I just got a form with a few characters to explain why I wasn't violating the rules (they did not say which rule I was violating).

I need to look through my email to reconstruct it. I'm in meetings most of the rest of the day. I'll try to get to it tonight.

OK, as best as I can tell I simply used the online form to state my case. I don't have any outgoing emails pleading my case, so it must have been an online submission. I do have an internal email address that I got after the fact but it would not be cool to post that here.

I'd suggest perhaps emailing support@kickstarter.com and respectfully stating your case. Remember, this ain't Google-bots, there are people just like you at the other end of that email. Talk to a person, not to a machine.

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