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U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

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Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#31
post #20
post #7

> I must, however, make clear that this office’s conduct was appropriate in bringing and handling this case. That's why you assign investigations to independent entities, and that's why butchers aren't allowed to do their own health inspection. Whether it was appropriate or not is not for Carmen Ortiz to say. "The prosecutors recognized that there was no evidence against Mr. Swartz indicating that he committed his ac…

> "At no time did this office ever seek – or ever tell Mr. Swartz’s attorneys that it intended to seek – maximum penalties under the law." http://watchdogblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/read-the-full-cou... page 344 > Nothing in the wire fraud statute or the cases construing it provides constitutionally adequate notice that manipulating IP addresses, spoofing MAC addresses, and gaining access to a free electronic communi…

On the first page, it says:

    Aaron Swartz
    TERMINATED: 01/14/2013
It's probably just legalese that refers to the case being closed, but the placement of the all-caps word right under Aaron's name sent a chill down my spine.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#32
post #31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "At no time did this office ever seek – or ever tell Mr. Swartz’s attorneys that it intended to seek – maximum penalties under the law." http://watchdogblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/read-the-full-cou... page 344 > Nothing in the wire fraud statute or the cases construing it provides constitutionally adequate notice that manipulating IP addresses, spoofing MAC addresses, and gaining access to a free electronic communi…

On the first page, it says: Aaron Swartz TERMINATED: 01/14/2013 It's probably just legalese that refers to the case being closed, but the placement of the all-caps word right under Aaron's name sent a chill down my spine. Sorry for the off-topic post.

That is one very unfortunate choice of words and I have goose flesh just reading that line. Terminated indeed.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#33

> and did so reasonably. They still believe that? Sorry but they're unfit for the job. They need to go. There was nothing reasonable about their actions on this case. > a sentence that we would recommend to the judge of six months in a low security setting. Six months in jail for downloading files that were accessible to him? All he did was violate terms of service! Are we going to start arresting under-age Facebook…

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/news/2011/July/SwartzAaronPR.... Downloading four million files, apparently. And if by breaking terms and services you mean illegally distributing protected content and threatening the business model of JSTOR then yes, I suppose that is true.

JSTOR wanted nothing to do with this case [Edit: they are a not-for-profit. Note that it's "http://www.jstor.org/ not jstor.com.]

JSTOR indicated that they had settled everything the needed to settle privately with Aaron. This was all on MIT and the Prosecution.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#34
So Ortiz' message is that - this is my job I fight for the law, and I agree that its over the top, but it is what it is. Change the framework and I'll do what it says.

The law (edit: and system ) is set up so that a "good prosecutor" would work to prove Aaron was guilty of breaking those laws. The final sentence, which is the responsibility of the Judge would have to take account of everything especially his motivation, to give him an appropriate sentence.

"I'm just doing my job, and the final sentencing isn't in my hands"

---

Fine - that's her version, and frankly - its exactly as expected. There really are few if any other ways that Ortiz could explain her actions.

Strangely its also pretty much the exact defense that the Financial industry has used so far. AKA these are the rules, hate the game not the player.

Sometimes people from the outside are required to point out that somethings are obviously morally wrong. Especially when Insiders end up missing it.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#36

While it is nice that she is passing blame to Congress, if it were only a "6 month low security setting" being discussed, why wouldn't Aaron have been told of this? Why the additional and ultimately 13 felony charges when he was MOST concerned with not being labled a felon. Why hold that 50 year sentence above his head with no HOPE in his own mind because he was left in the dark. "As a parent and sister", would you w…

When cops come across otherwise nice young white guys who believe themselves invulnerable or above the law and are doing stupid, impulsive things, their usual practice is to "scare them straight." So they get tough on them, tell them all of the awful consequences they're in for, put them in a horrible, cramped cell, maybe throw them in with some real nasty characters, and, above all, get their parents involved.

It's a form of kindness. If you make them crush their self-confidence and make them feel like shit, they learn their lesson. They lose that blithe self-confidence and begin to realise they have to play by the same rules as everyone else. And then, they will hopefully turn into constructive, positive-minded members of society.

The practice varies with the character of the kid, the ugliness of their crime, etc. I'm not saying this is what Ortiz and co were thinking with Aaron necessarily but I wouldn't be surprised if it was an element. Aaron's behaviour was very removed from the situations I'm talking about, so the participants and response was very different. But he sounds like quite an... intense person, so maybe they decided they needed to put a lot of pressure on him to crush his spirit.

Of course, usually the kids don't kill themselves - but then usually it's not the justice department slapping them on the wrist. They should have realised that people like Aaron are very fragile. I won't apologise for that. A more delicate touch was required, because this outcome is just awful and a disaster for all parties. A real shame. But I do want to point out that their actions in frightening him were not necessarily without reason.

By the way, I have spent a night in a cold concrete cell sobering up and feeling like the world's biggest idiot. My escapade cost me $2700 and a lot of self-respect, and though it was awful at the time I am thankful and realise I learned my lesson very economically. Hearing Aaron's story is really painful.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#37

Let me just throw something out there. It's obvious that the investigation was a contributing factor to Aaron's decision to take his life, but to what extent? Was this at all investigated by the media, or have everyone just made the connection, because it was the easiest explanation?

Aaron killed himself two years to the day of this whole ordeal starting.

Either that's an incredible coincidence, or Aaron decided to take his life as a political statement. Given his past actions, that's an easy assumption to make.

Also, his request for a plea deal was denied in very harsh terms two days before Aaron took his own life, so even knowing just that and the fact that he really did not want to be labeled a felon, it's easy to make the connection.

Finally, Aaron's own family, partner and legal representation believe they were related, i.e. those closest to Aaron believe the federal trial was a major cause.

Of course, he also had a history of dealing with depression; I don't think anyone's denying that.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/news/2011/July/SwartzAaronPR.... Downloading four million files, apparently. And if by breaking terms and services you mean illegally distributing protected content and threatening the business model of JSTOR then yes, I suppose that is true.

JSTOR wanted nothing to do with this case [Edit: they are a not-for-profit. Note that it's " http://www.jstor.org/ not jstor.com.] JSTOR indicated that they had settled everything the needed to settle privately with Aaron. This was all on MIT and the Prosecution.

I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what the precedent is or what is reasonable when an affected party does not wish for charges to be pressed.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#39

Let me just throw something out there. It's obvious that the investigation was a contributing factor to Aaron's decision to take his life, but to what extent? Was this at all investigated by the media, or have everyone just made the connection, because it was the easiest explanation?

What do you want - an algorithm that says the investigation was 72.3% +/- 5% margin of error responsible for his suicide?

There's no way to know, but it's probable that it's a large contributing factor based on what Lessig et al. wrote.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#40
There are people along history (and I mean specifically civil servants, like Thomas More -the first that comes to my mind but by no means the only one-) who have even given his life because they did not want to comply with 'the law'... This 'complying with the law' is fedding me up.

Someone has already noticed that bankers did also act 'with the law on their part'...

And all the rating agencies, they suddendly 'just offer counsel and advice', they are in no way suggesting that a product is fit for buying or selling...

Is there a conscience out there?

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