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Why I just joined the NRA

townhall.com

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Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#31

Post by hga »

Steko wrote: post #9
ltcoleman wrote: post #4

I'm not completely convinced all of his facts are backed up, but I do agree with his sentiments. Gun control will never be an answer to violent crime, far too easy to obtain illegally. I remember my gun nut friends all had illegal assault rifles during the Clinton ban. I agree that mental illness awareness is a much better place to spend the $500 million Obama just asked for gun control. More government always fixes…

"far too easy to obtain illegally." Please go to Japan and obtain a gun illegally as proof of this claim. " I remember my gun nut friends all had illegal assault rifles during the Clinton ban." Bad regulation is proof that all regulation doesn't work! ... right?

Japan has forbidden the keeping and bearing of arms by normal subjects since 1588; the collective guilt based controls that followed during the Shogunate were sufficiently hideous that I really can't see any utility in comparing the two nations in these areas.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#32

Post by hga »

Steko wrote: post #24
johng wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes American's so special is the fact that we are a unique country. A country that was built on our core values, as they are laid out in our constitution of the united states that has guided us and has never steered us wrong. We are the same country that came to the worlds aid (and europe, especially) during WW1 and WW2. Our beliefs aren't perfect. They just happen to be less wrong then others, IMHO... and in…

"constitution of the united states that has guided us and has never steered us wrong" Slavery?

Errr, without accepting slavery there wouldn't have been a Constitution or United States of America. And it did provide a mechanism for outlawing it, although that of course just ratified the outcome on the battlefields.

[ Clarified: it -> slavery. ]

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#33

Post by rdl »

If you're considering joining the NRA for the same reasons as in this article, I'd strongly suggest you also join the Gun Owners of America (GOA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF). Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) is also well regarded, and if you're a Californian, Calguns (or in other states, your state's gun association).

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#34

Post by Steko »

hga wrote: post #32
Steko wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"constitution of the united states that has guided us and has never steered us wrong" Slavery?

Errr, without accepting slavery there wouldn't have been a Constitution or United States of America. And it did provide a mechanism for outlawing it, although that of course just ratified the outcome on the battlefields. [ Clarified: it -> slavery. ]

I have no idea what your point is.

"Errr, without accepting it there wouldn't have been a Constitution or United States of America. "

Maybe this is also true about the second amendment?

"And it did provide a mechanism for outlawing it"

Maybe this is also relevant to gun control?

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#35

Post by hga »

rdl wrote: post #33

If you're considering joining the NRA for the same reasons as in this article, I'd strongly suggest you also join the Gun Owners of America (GOA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF). Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) is also well regarded, and if you're a Californian, Calguns (or in other states, your state's gun association).

If you want effectiveness, though, I only recommend the NRA (reluctantly, details upon request) and the SAF, since the latter has been the major driver in the lawsuits that started with Heller. The JPFO has done some good propaganda, but the last time I checked went off in a bad tangent with L. Neil Smith (who got too extreme for me not too many books after The Probability Broach). The GAO is too partisan and into conservative and Republican causes beyond the RKBA to be of much use even in their ratings, and they have very very little influence.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#36

Post by rdl »

hga wrote: post #35
rdl wrote: post #33

If you're considering joining the NRA for the same reasons as in this article, I'd strongly suggest you also join the Gun Owners of America (GOA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF). Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) is also well regarded, and if you're a Californian, Calguns (or in other states, your state's gun association).

If you want effectiveness, though, I only recommend the NRA (reluctantly, details upon request) and the SAF, since the latter has been the major driver in the lawsuits that started with Heller . The JPFO has done some good propaganda, but the last time I checked went off in a bad tangent with L. Neil Smith (who got too extreme for me not too many books after The Probability Broach ). The GAO is too partisan and into…

SAF is probably my favorite. Firearms Policy Coalition (which seems to be Calguns + SAF) is also nice, and new.

My big problem with NRA is how spammy they are to members. NRA-ILA is one thing, but being offered overpriced auto insurance, etc. all the time was really annoying. I eventually got off all the marketing lists, but it took a few tries.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#37

Post by Steko »

hga wrote: post #31
Steko wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"far too easy to obtain illegally." Please go to Japan and obtain a gun illegally as proof of this claim. " I remember my gun nut friends all had illegal assault rifles during the Clinton ban." Bad regulation is proof that all regulation doesn't work! ... right?

Japan has forbidden the keeping and bearing of arms by normal subjects since 1588 ; the collective guilt based controls that followed during the Shogunate were sufficiently hideous that I really can't see any utility in comparing the two nations in these areas.

Handguns were outlawed in 1958 and new rifles since 1971. Shotguns are available but heavily regulated.

"I really can't see"

The point I was making was pretty obvious but I'll repeat it here again: it is actually very possible to make it hard to obtain a gun. Japan is hardly the only exhibit.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#38

Post by Steko »

hga wrote: post #30
retube wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What some politicians are proposing right now is an outright snub of the 2nd amendment So what? Maybe the 2nd amendment is wrong, or a bad idea, or a 200 year old proclamation that is no longer relevant in modern times? People's attachment to this clause is just... fundamentalist. And why do people insist on equating gun ownership with freedom? You're not allowed to own bombs or missiles, does that also mean I am n…

Everybody in Europe manages just fine without owning guns Errr, that turns out not to be the case. Look at the results of the 2007 Small Arms Survey at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_owners... and you'll see it's pretty well armed (drill down to the PDF and even legal registration levels are a lot higher than I suspect you think). In the other direction, when it comes to mass shootings Europe h…

"when it comes to mass shootings Europe has been doing worse than the US as of late"

This is false.

"school shootings"

Europe: 65, US: 85

"Other spree shootings"

Europe: 93, US: 121

Europe has over twice the population of the US.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#39

Post by hga »

Steko wrote: post #38
hga wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody in Europe manages just fine without owning guns Errr, that turns out not to be the case. Look at the results of the 2007 Small Arms Survey at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_owners... and you'll see it's pretty well armed (drill down to the PDF and even legal registration levels are a lot higher than I suspect you think). In the other direction, when it comes to mass shootings Europe h…

"when it comes to mass shootings Europe has been doing worse than the US as of late" This is false. "school shootings" Europe: 65, US: 85 "Other spree shootings" Europe: 93, US: 121 Europe has over twice the population of the US.

I'm only counting "Western Europe", excepting the former East Germany, west of the old Iron Curtain for a whole bunch of reasons.

Where do you get 85 school shooting deaths (?) in this century? VT 32 + Newtown 24 = 56. (In all cases I do not count the shooter if he died.) Plus I'm also pointing out that there were a lot more school shooting incidents.

It's too late for me to go into spree shootings, but ... when I just added up the deaths for Europe from my list, I got 157.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#40

Post by jmadsen »

hga wrote: post #29
jmadsen wrote: post #5

The way to break gun violence is to teach people that the way to solve differences is not to make sure you're a bigger bad ass than anyone who might come in conflict with you. Americans don't have a love of guns, they have a love of confrontation. That was the most difficult cultural thing I had to learn when I moved to Japan.

Japan is a really serious outlier when it comes to not having a "love" of confrontation! I mean, their word for "you're wrong" doesn't even have that semantic content. I suspect America is a lot closer to the middle than it.

I wasn't comparing to Japan, merely stating how it took an effort to change.

America may be in the middle confrontation-wise, but when you add in the ease of obtaining a handgun, you get the current problem.

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