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Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

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Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#31

Post by neltnerb »

uptown wrote: post #5

Am I the only one that finds these petitions pointless? They marginalize any real activism down to just some signatures by loosely-connected individuals and really just provide a forum for speaking to your elected officials - something they're supposed to be there for anyway - in a format that has none of the financial "umph" that lobbyists bring.

I am deeply worried about this too.

I suspect that the data driven Obama administration has full capability to estimate the likelihood of citizens rioting, and determined that providing a "lazy" outlet for frustration would undermine real protest.

It's like how facebook lets you complain about some horrible injustice, which makes you feel like you've done something even though you've done next to nothing.

Very worried.

Especially since I see it happening to me too. When we went to war in Iraq, I was out in the streets marching and holding protest signs. So was almost everyone I know. If we declared war on Iran, would the same happen? My bet is you'd see lots of complaining on facebook, and a petition to not go to war. Maybe emailed letters to representatives in congress. But actual street protests? No way, we can just let anonymous annoy some people for us.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

olefoo wrote: post #14
AnIrishDuck wrote: post #10

Am I the only one embarrassed by the blatant errors in that petition? The first sentence is a run-on grammatical non sequitor. The rest of the petition conveys a muddled thought process that seems blinded by outrage. Did the author even bother to proofread that thing before submitting it? There are plenty of other reasons to pass on this petition. That said, this displays less polish and thought than an email I typic…

As the author of the petition; I take responsibility for hitting the submit button, halfway through an edit. Sorry.

I say this only to help in the future: (Life Pro Tip style)

Do your writing/editing in a separate app/editor window, and then copy/paste it in. This applies to important emails as well, to prevent hitting send before your final draft is done.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#33

Post by olefoo »

neltnerb wrote: post #28
olefoo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the author of the petition; I take responsibility for hitting the submit button, halfway through an edit. Sorry.

I forgive you. (No, seriously, this bugged me too, but it's the sentiment that counts)

I was in the midst of changing the tense; I should have written it in emacs and then copied it into the form once I was happy with it. So it goes.

I'm actually wondering whether a more considered phrasing would have done worse.

As it is the main goal of putting the headline into Barack Obama's eyeballs has been reached, and Ms. Ortiz knows that her boss is making the political calculation of whether she is a liability or an asset.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#34

Post by rosser »

zoowar wrote: post #17
AnIrishDuck wrote: post #10

Am I the only one embarrassed by the blatant errors in that petition? The first sentence is a run-on grammatical non sequitor. The rest of the petition conveys a muddled thought process that seems blinded by outrage. Did the author even bother to proofread that thing before submitting it? There are plenty of other reasons to pass on this petition. That said, this displays less polish and thought than an email I typic…

Participation in democracy is not limited by literacy.

Not any more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#35

Post by achompas »

numbsafari wrote: post #21
fr0sty wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to equivocate. GGP commment made an unqualified statement "action in government is slow" adding that the idea of "drastic action" was a "fantasy". I countered by noting that in the present day the government is moving very fast on at least one particular issue. We will know tomorrow whether the action is drastic. Full stop.

Full stop? How many mass murders has it taken to get to this point? How is that "drastic" or "very fast"? Oh, wait, there's a commission that might "recommend" we re-enact legislation that expired a few years ago? How is that "drastic"? How is that "very fast"? As the GGP said, what's gonna happen first is an investigation and a review. Why the need to jump to "vigilante justice"? The end result of "vigilante justice…

How many mass murders has it taken to get to this point? How is that "drastic" or "very fast"?

The same issue was addressed by the Brady Bill 18 years ago, so it's not like the issue hasn't been addressed before.

That response's effectiveness is another story, of course (hint: it wasn't).

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#36

Post by kamjam »

numbsafari wrote: post #7
fr0sty wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main point is that action in government is slow. And for good reason. If people want to hold onto the fantasy that when a bunch of people get angry, the government will take drastic action...then fine... Sandy Hook was one month ago and the President is having a big news conference tomorrow about the administrations response re: gun violence. Is that "slow"? "drastic action"? something else?

It's 25 dead children who were completely innocent of any crime. It's an incident in a long line of incidents over many decades in which many innocent people were killed. I think you need to calibrate your moral barometer a bit better.

So how many deaths of individuals threatened with 30 years of prison for minor crimes does it take before this becomes an issue?

We supposedly live in a civilised society I would say 1 death is 1 too many.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#37

Post by crag »

Let me point out every prosecutor threatens the accused. Whether you were caught stealing gold or chewing gum.

I doubt this "prosecutor" even knew the details of the "crime" or cared. I doubt she was ever briefed on the details of Aaron's life or cared too hear it. That's what she has assistants for.

And that's the problem with the system. Prosecutors don't take time (except on TV) to learn about the accused. They just go straight for the throat. Be dammed the circumstances.

It's not enough to go after one prosecutor. Change the system.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#38

Post by gesman »

numbsafari wrote: post #16
gesman wrote: post #8

We need another one: "To return all taxpayer's money wasted on prolonged witch hunt fueled by personal egoic ambitions"

Only if it's followed up with a petition to "return all taxpayer money wasted on egoic pranks". There was always a way forward to achieving Aaron's goals that didn't involve sneaking around. Whether he was right or wrong, he knew on some level that what he was doing was, at the very least, inappropriate and potentially harmful. If not, then why attempt to hide his face? If not, why even do it at all? It's a sad and u…

>>sad and unfortunate fact that we are wasting time on silly petitions that single out individuals rather than >>investing all that time and effort into changing the laws

Please elaborate on your track record in "investing time and effort into changing laws". Let these silly 30,000+ petition voters to learn from an expert.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#39

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

agwa wrote: post #19

Though I'd like to see Oritz fired, and think she's deserving of it, the effort to get her fired is blinding us to a bigger problem and a proper solution. The system was broken long before Oritz and Swartz, but it wasn't until it affected someone we like that we noticed. But we're in a bubble, and the vast majority of Americans do not care who Aaron Swartz is, will not be affected by this tragedy like we were, and in…

Even though getting officials fired is not your preferred method to help jumpstart reform there are no reasons for you to discourage others of doing so.

If you think you have a better axis of attack on this problem, I beg you, please lead an effort on that axis.

If we waited for a consensus on the best manner to proceed before doing anything, noting would ever get done.

To make a comparison relevant to this community, imagine that HN was used to shame others starting businesses that don't use the best consensus methods or ideas. How many good startups would never see the day?

With startups, more than 90% of attempts fail. I'm pretty sure that attempts at changing the system don't have better odds. If we reduce the efforts to a single attempt, there is 90% chances it will fail.

Also, consider that special interests have probably built legal and political walls in the most obvious paths of change. It's worth trying all fronts to find a weakness especially the newer little known ones.

Re: Petition To Fire Aaron Swartz’ Prosecutor Reaches Goal

#40

Post by AnIrishDuck »

zoowar wrote: post #17
AnIrishDuck wrote: post #10

Am I the only one embarrassed by the blatant errors in that petition? The first sentence is a run-on grammatical non sequitor. The rest of the petition conveys a muddled thought process that seems blinded by outrage. Did the author even bother to proofread that thing before submitting it? There are plenty of other reasons to pass on this petition. That said, this displays less polish and thought than an email I typic…

Participation in democracy is not limited by literacy.

No, but influence certainly is.
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