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Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

nytimes.com

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Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#31

Post by gizmo686 »

pixl97 wrote: post #11

If I had to think of anti-virus I would trust the most it would be this. The computer would reboot in to a maintenance mode where it would boot in to a check mode. Hopefully off the network or some other source that couldn't be altered by a virus/malware. The check mode would checksum all executable content and update its database, reporting all changed and added files. It could also check for known out of date execu…

I think that concept would work better as sighning executables rather than stopping the world and validating against a data base. Create a private key from the user's password (which of course cannot be derived from information stored on the computer). When an unsighned binary tries runing, require the user to provide their password to sighn it.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#32

Post by jimbobimbo »

talleyrand wrote: post #3

I thought antivirus software existed merely to deal with flaws in Windows...

While I understand that Windows' past does make it a convenient target for such remarks, most "viruses" now are not really viruses, but malware that either exploit holes in (mostly) third-party software, or goes after a human factor. Stricter security practices from Vista onwards (UAC, low-privileged user accounts by default, etc.) make Windows no easier target than Mac or *x, if social engineering involved. No anti-malware product will help if user is tricked into voluntary entering their credentials or credit card details.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#33

Post by throwaway2048 »

gizmo686 wrote: post #29
throwaway2048 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it really dosent. native code can do the exact same sort of tricks. a pretty standard tool in detection evasions bag of tricks is to write a custom virtual machine that generates code on the fly, which makes static, signature based analysis of payloads totally useless.

What keeps you from finger printing the VM just as easily?

the vm is eaiser to modify than the entire codebase, you have to update only one small bit of code, rather than everything. The vm is written with this in mind, and is trival to automaticly obfuscate/transform.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#34

Post by oskarpearson »

revelation wrote: post #4

The data security firm recently found that antivirus software programs perform poorly against new viruses. The remainder of the article provides similar enlightenment.

The article basically adds a few interviews and photos to an Imperva press release: http://investors.imperva.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=247116&p=ir...

Aside: this reminded me of PG's article "The Suit is Back": http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html That, at least, is well worth a read.

So I guess Imperva might be a company to watch - at least we now know they have a good PR firm :)

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#35

Post by lucian303 »

zanny wrote: post #17
lucian303 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like to face the truth. No worries, downvoting, upvoting, I couldn't give a shit one way or the other. It's just a silly number.

But I thought my self worth was measured in internet points. Did Reddit lie to me? 😰

Not only that, calling this "karma" and identifying with the popular notion of "karma" which has no basis in any philosophy but irrational, illogical thinking, is quite ironic. If you do something good to someone, something good will not happen to you. That's the popular notion of "karma" and it's wrong. It's wrong from the traditional notion and it's wrong from the philosophical concept. But too many people want to live in the delusion of this pseudo-bullshit-karma world.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#36

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

lucian303 wrote: post #35
zanny wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I thought my self worth was measured in internet points. Did Reddit lie to me? 😰

Not only that, calling this "karma" and identifying with the popular notion of "karma" which has no basis in any philosophy but irrational, illogical thinking, is quite ironic. If you do something good to someone, something good will not happen to you. That's the popular notion of "karma" and it's wrong. It's wrong from the traditional notion and it's wrong from the philosophical concept. But too many people want to…

The word "Karma" is a Hindi word meaning 'Action'. No more, and no less.

What you or others may attach to it doesn't matter.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#37

Post by lucian303 »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #36
lucian303 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, calling this "karma" and identifying with the popular notion of "karma" which has no basis in any philosophy but irrational, illogical thinking, is quite ironic. If you do something good to someone, something good will not happen to you. That's the popular notion of "karma" and it's wrong. It's wrong from the traditional notion and it's wrong from the philosophical concept. But too many people want to…

The word "Karma" is a Hindi word meaning 'Action'. No more, and no less. What you or others may attach to it doesn't matter.

Yes, but it's my understanding that the Hindi concept is much deeper than that. I don't presume to be an expert on this topic (Hindi karma), however. Philosophical karma is a different thing and very simple.

What is attached to popular karma is an over-optimistic, unrealistic viewpoint of rewards based on action. The world doesn't work that way, but a lot of people, especially in the western world think it does and think this is a valid concept. It's not. It's a sequitur.

That is all that I was stating. I do not wish to attach anything more to the concept than has already been attached.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#38

Post by lucian303 »

gizmo686 wrote: post #30
enraged_camel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are being downvoted, as anyone who deals with computers will be well aware that anti-virus software exists mostly as security theater. It can be useful against certain types of viruses, especially those who are widespread, but it is a very dangerous thing in and of itself because it states that the user's system is "protected," causing most people to gain a false sense of security and drop their guar…

I do not think anti-viruses are pure security theater. They will not protect against zero day attacks, however, once a specific virus hits enough people, anti-viruses will be updated, preventing large scale infection. In order to avoid this, attackers need an attack vector that would allow them to change the virus binary at will. These definitely exist, but A/V does stop a non trivial amount of infections.

There is software out there that specifically targets zero day attacks. It would be a conflict of interest for me to mention specifics, but a trivial matter for those interested to find out.

Re: Antivirus Makers Struggle to Adapt

#39

Post by dbaupp »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #36
lucian303 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, calling this "karma" and identifying with the popular notion of "karma" which has no basis in any philosophy but irrational, illogical thinking, is quite ironic. If you do something good to someone, something good will not happen to you. That's the popular notion of "karma" and it's wrong. It's wrong from the traditional notion and it's wrong from the philosophical concept. But too many people want to…

The word "Karma" is a Hindi word meaning 'Action'. No more, and no less. What you or others may attach to it doesn't matter.

What people attach to it does matter: having shared meanings for sequences of letters/sounds is how language works, and the sequence of letters "karma" has meaning in modern English which is different to its Hindi meaning.
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