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'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

theverge.com

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Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#31

Post by crote »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #29
crote wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before app verification any app store could install any app without having the user jump through crazy hoops. After app verification any app store can only install Google-blessed apps without having the user jump through crazy hoops. App verification does not "allow" anything. Its only purpose is to block non-blessed apps through third-party stores and extracting an additional bribe from developers. You cannot view a…

> Before app verification any app store could install any app without having the user jump through crazy hoops After app verification, exactly the same. Nothing changes about what app stores can do. > App verification does not "allow" anything It allows installing apps outside a system app store without the user having to enable installing from the app that triggered the install. Prior to app verification , the user…

> After app verification, exactly the same.

No, because to install unverified apps the user has to 1) enable developer mode, 2) confirm you aren't being guided, 3) reboot the device, 4) wait 24 hours, 5) enable unverified app installation. You also have to confirm that you are really-really sure with every install. Oh, and that step 5? Google explicitly recommends turning it on for 7 days only.

> It allows installing apps outside a system app store without the user having to enable installing from the app that triggered the install.

... which was already possible, so it is not enabled by app verification.

> You are confusing app verification with a change in how to install unverified apps.

It is two parts of the same thing. App verification exists only to make installing unverified apps difficult. App verification has no reason to exist if installing unverified apps is not restricted.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#32

Post by crote »

alightsoul wrote: post #10

I am not sure I am against app verification. I almost installed an APK that was a banking infostealer. Is there really no other way? Microsoft fixed this with a built in virus scanner on Windows

> Microsoft fixed this with a built in virus scanner on Windows

Oh, Android has this already! Third-party apps will still be subjected to the Google Play Protect scanning. Making sideloading needlessly difficult is done for business reasons, not device safety.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#33

Post by lern_too_spel »

crote wrote: post #31
lern_too_spel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before app verification any app store could install any app without having the user jump through crazy hoops After app verification, exactly the same. Nothing changes about what app stores can do. > App verification does not "allow" anything It allows installing apps outside a system app store without the user having to enable installing from the app that triggered the install. Prior to app verification , the user…

> After app verification, exactly the same. No, because to install unverified apps the user has to 1) enable developer mode, 2) confirm you aren't being guided, 3) reboot the device, 4) wait 24 hours, 5) enable unverified app installation. You also have to confirm that you are really-really sure with every install . Oh, and that step 5? Google explicitly recommends turning it on for 7 days only . > It allows installi…

> No, because to install unverified apps the user has to 1) enable developer mode,

As I said in my first comment, that change is separate from app verification.

> which was already possible, so it is not enabled by app verification

It was not. Read the rest of that sentence beginning with "without."

> App verification has no reason to exist if installing unverified apps is not restricted.

App verification is required to allow installing apps outside a system app store without any warning to the user, as required by the ruling.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#34

Post by dTal »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #26
inigyou wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely no way to prevent crime except for putting a surveillance camera in everyone's bathroom.

Depends who is watching.

It could be Mister Rogers himself for all I fucking care, no cameras in the bathroom please.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#35

Post by kevincox »

ColdStream wrote: post #2

It is funny how we have two storm fronts here. Google trying to lock down apps to only Google approved developers, and legal decisions to open up alternative app stores that would potentially use apps that are not Google approved. One wonders which side will win this one? All I know is, I still want my F-Droid with apps that Google doesn't have power over.

This storm fronts are really just Google trying to dig in as deep as possible.

On one end they are trying to fight the requirements for alternative app stores and making them as hard as possible to use.

On the other end they are trying to put hooks so that they can block installations of apps from other app stores.

Then they hope that regulation will take longer to dislodge the various methods they are using to retain control.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#36

Post by lern_too_spel »

graceful6800 wrote: post #22
lern_too_spel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN in general has completely misunderstood app verification. App verification is what allows rival app stores to be installed without a warning, even if they aren't installed from a system app store. It is a direct result of this ruling. It's still possible to install any app with a warning. A future Google Android build will require developer mode to be enabled to install those apps. That is the problem to address,…

Sure, just like age verification is what allows governments to protect children, right?

HN in general gets AB 1043 wrong as well, so that's kind of similar. There is no verification of age involved.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#37

Post by lern_too_spel »

NewJazz wrote: post #5
lern_too_spel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN in general has completely misunderstood app verification. App verification is what allows rival app stores to be installed without a warning, even if they aren't installed from a system app store. It is a direct result of this ruling. It's still possible to install any app with a warning. A future Google Android build will require developer mode to be enabled to install those apps. That is the problem to address,…

What does app verification mean to you? Does it involve sending a copy of your ID to google? Because imho that alone is a problem.

> Because imho that alone is a problem.

That is already required to list an app on the Play Store. What app verification means is that if you've done that, you don't have to distribute through the play store. People can install your app (or app store) from your website and not get a scary warning about whether to allow installs for apps downloaded from your browser, as required by the judge's ruling. Nothing else changes. People who complain to their legislators about app verification will get laughed at. I already explained what they should complain about instead.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#38

Post by [deleted] »

em-bee wrote: post #27
lern_too_spel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN in general has completely misunderstood app verification. App verification is what allows rival app stores to be installed without a warning, even if they aren't installed from a system app store. It is a direct result of this ruling. It's still possible to install any app with a warning. A future Google Android build will require developer mode to be enabled to install those apps. That is the problem to address,…

the whole point of using an alternative app store is to be able to install apps that are NOT approved by google. if google is the only allowed arbiter of what may be installed then we are no better off then using the google play store, because i find it highly unlikely that google would approve an app that it would not allow on the play store as well. (ok, sure, an alternate app store would also get around google tak…

[deleted]

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#39

Post by lern_too_spel »

em-bee wrote: post #27
lern_too_spel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN in general has completely misunderstood app verification. App verification is what allows rival app stores to be installed without a warning, even if they aren't installed from a system app store. It is a direct result of this ruling. It's still possible to install any app with a warning. A future Google Android build will require developer mode to be enabled to install those apps. That is the problem to address,…

the whole point of using an alternative app store is to be able to install apps that are NOT approved by google. if google is the only allowed arbiter of what may be installed then we are no better off then using the google play store, because i find it highly unlikely that google would approve an app that it would not allow on the play store as well. (ok, sure, an alternate app store would also get around google tak…

> the whole point of using an alternative app store is to be able to install apps that are NOT approved by google

No, the whole point of using an alternative app store is to get better deals for developers or end users. Apps that are not approved by Google can still be installed. The whole point of app verification is to allow installation outside a system app store (e.g., directly from a website or from another app store) without any scary warnings, as required by the judge's ruling.

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