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Chicken Scheme 6.0

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Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#31

Post by hajile »

anthk wrote: post #21

Uhm. I'm divided. Common Lisp it's the weird cousin, bloated at first but in the end you get SBCL, ECL or CCL and almost everything will work the same. With Scheme, you need to instal SRFI's to complete SICP exercises and then there's R5RS and R7RS. You have no way to run Hypergiant under Guile. In Common Lisp, tons of packages for QuickLisp/UltraLisp will run on SBCL, CCL and ECL with ease. In the end Scheme+Depende…

Scheme SRFIs make Scheme a much bigger language while also making it painful to use because you have to research which SRFI are implemented in your scheme variant then map those SRFI numbers to what they actually do then you usually need read the raw SRFI because that's the only documentation around.

R7RS is going on 14 years old and there's still no R7RS-large either. They really need to just take the critical SFRIs, give them names and proper documentation, then call them R7RS-large and move the current work to a future R8RS.

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#32

Post by SomeHacker44 »

trescenzi wrote: post #6

I started playing with Chicken over the weekend because I was looking for a scheme that you could build binaries of and that had a lively ecosystem. I've really enjoyed it. So far I've mostly played with web stuff. Built a wrapper around makemkvcon for ripping some dvds I've been meaning to rip that'll do a little bit of automatic naming of output using the tv db. I was slightly worried that I'd start using v5 and th…

How would it be for a 2D game?

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#33

Post by anthk »

atemerev wrote: post #25
rmunn wrote: post #8

For those who use Chicken Scheme: what made you pick it over other Lisps? What are some things it does particularly well?

Self-contained, compact, compiled, fast, ready to use. SBCL is not compact and its "image" concept is not universally liked by everyone. Guile and Racket are not fast (nor compact). Chez Scheme is not "ready to use".

Well, SBCL can just use sources just fine. On Guile not being fast enough, it got a JIT since version 3 and it can be pretty fast. It must be, you know, because if not Guix would be even slower.

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#34

Post by anthk »

hajile wrote: post #31
anthk wrote: post #21

Uhm. I'm divided. Common Lisp it's the weird cousin, bloated at first but in the end you get SBCL, ECL or CCL and almost everything will work the same. With Scheme, you need to instal SRFI's to complete SICP exercises and then there's R5RS and R7RS. You have no way to run Hypergiant under Guile. In Common Lisp, tons of packages for QuickLisp/UltraLisp will run on SBCL, CCL and ECL with ease. In the end Scheme+Depende…

Scheme SRFIs make Scheme a much bigger language while also making it painful to use because you have to research which SRFI are implemented in your scheme variant then map those SRFI numbers to what they actually do then you usually need read the raw SRFI because that's the only documentation around. R7RS is going on 14 years old and there's still no R7RS-large either. They really need to just take the critical SFRIs…

Indeed. Scheme it's amazing for embedded (such as s9) and its small size. Also, the SICP it's cool to do with Chicken Scheme and this ~/.csirc (and chicken install srfi-203 and srfi-216):

    (import scheme)
    (import (srfi 203))
    (import (srfi 216))
 
 (define (displaynl x)
  (display x)
  (newline))
 
 (define pi (* 4 (atan 1.0)))
Even if Chicken has Hypergiant to play with 3D objects, Common Lisp has Kandria, Sketch, Kons-9...

From Scheme, after finishing SICP as an Scheme exercise (and CS course), just jump into Common Lisp, and finish both Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation and Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence, where you will implement a micro-Scheme in Common Lisp itself as an exercise.

SBCL allows you to create working stuff with very few dependencies (uiop and the like from QuickLisp/Ultralisp). With Scheme/Chicken you will get lost in a maze of eggs and SRFI's.

And, on CS/academics, if you finish SICP both GITC and PAIP on on Common Lisp will be a breeze and it will give you superpowers with these three books.

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#35

Post by zelphirkalt »

anthk wrote: post #21

Uhm. I'm divided. Common Lisp it's the weird cousin, bloated at first but in the end you get SBCL, ECL or CCL and almost everything will work the same. With Scheme, you need to instal SRFI's to complete SICP exercises and then there's R5RS and R7RS. You have no way to run Hypergiant under Guile. In Common Lisp, tons of packages for QuickLisp/UltraLisp will run on SBCL, CCL and ECL with ease. In the end Scheme+Depende…

However, with Schemes the SRFI implementations usually (?) come with the standard library, so you don't actually "have to install" them. Still gotta know the usual suspects, like SRFI for tests, SRFI for vectors, hash tables, random numbers, etc. if you want your code to be mostly portable to other Schemes.

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#36

Post by bigfishrunning »

anthk wrote: post #34
hajile wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scheme SRFIs make Scheme a much bigger language while also making it painful to use because you have to research which SRFI are implemented in your scheme variant then map those SRFI numbers to what they actually do then you usually need read the raw SRFI because that's the only documentation around. R7RS is going on 14 years old and there's still no R7RS-large either. They really need to just take the critical SFRIs…

Indeed. Scheme it's amazing for embedded (such as s9) and its small size. Also, the SICP it's cool to do with Chicken Scheme and this ~/.csirc (and chicken install srfi-203 and srfi-216): (import scheme) (import (srfi 203)) (import (srfi 216)) (define (displaynl x) (display x) (newline)) (define pi (* 4 (atan 1.0))) Even if Chicken has Hypergiant to play with 3D objects, Common Lisp has Kandria, Sketch, Kons-9... Fro…

I guess you mean s7 -- I find s7 scheme fits into a lua shaped hole for scripting larger applications quite well without having to use lua (which is a personal preference). I used s7 scheme for scripting a C program years ago, and moved on to writing programs with chicken scheme.

I really think in an alternate universe chicken scheme could fit into the python niche, because the eggs feel very "batteries included". Super excited for this release!

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#37

Post by Myzura »

Happy to see CHICKEN 6.0 out. Moving to full R7RS and UTF-8 strings was long overdue. The change from blobs to bytevectors and the process-object API look particularly clean. Anyone who has already started porting code — any major gotchas so far?

Re: Chicken Scheme 6.0

#38

Post by drob518 »

anthk wrote: post #21

Uhm. I'm divided. Common Lisp it's the weird cousin, bloated at first but in the end you get SBCL, ECL or CCL and almost everything will work the same. With Scheme, you need to instal SRFI's to complete SICP exercises and then there's R5RS and R7RS. You have no way to run Hypergiant under Guile. In Common Lisp, tons of packages for QuickLisp/UltraLisp will run on SBCL, CCL and ECL with ease. In the end Scheme+Depende…

That dynamic was exactly why I moved from Scheme to CL many years ago (full disclosure, Clojure is my daily driver, now). I loved the minimalism of the RxRS documents, but they really only covered the small core of the language, and then all the implementations were completely different when it came to libraries. And those differences always needed to be understood in order to write real-world programs. SRFIs helped, but adoption was spotty. Every multi-implementation language has some of that, but Scheme had more than most. For me, the choices were to use a very full-featured Scheme like Racket (which is great) or go to CL and then use something like SBCL. I went with CL and later jumped to Clojure (which, IMO, is a better, more modern Lisp that fits better with today’s multi-core hardware than either Scheme or CL).
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