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Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

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Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#31

Post by Joel_Mckay »

yuerino wrote: post #25

While I'm all for sueing Sony, and digital games cost more than physical games sound wrong and shouldn't happen, I feel like they focus on the wrong thing to sue Sony for. Like someone mentions in this thread, this feels like sueing McDonalds for having a monopoly on Big Mac, and only sell Big Mac in their stores. I don't know what the alternative solution to this problem is, but this doesn't feel right to me. For me…

It is not a new phenomena, and would be illegal in any other physical market. =3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#33

Post by stingraycharles »

wilg wrote: post #30
stingraycharles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s that there is a large upfront cost (buying a PlayStation) which isn’t in the analogy. Additionally, many of the games are already on different platforms (PC), just not any other consoles. I think the biggest thing is that Sony doesn’t actually make the games (they don’t have the kitchen nor the cooks), they just sell it. So a more apt comparison would be a grocery store, I think.

The large upfront cost is lower than it would be because its subsidized by buying the games for it! Sony does make the games, they have many excellent first party studios! What are you talking about!

They make games, they just don’t make all the games. Similar like a grocery store having their own brands in the shelves, you don’t expect to be able to buy these at other shops.

And yes the upfront costs being subsidized is exactly the point.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#34

Post by ytoawwhra92 »

wilg wrote: post #30
stingraycharles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s that there is a large upfront cost (buying a PlayStation) which isn’t in the analogy. Additionally, many of the games are already on different platforms (PC), just not any other consoles. I think the biggest thing is that Sony doesn’t actually make the games (they don’t have the kitchen nor the cooks), they just sell it. So a more apt comparison would be a grocery store, I think.

The large upfront cost is lower than it would be because its subsidized by buying the games for it! Sony does make the games, they have many excellent first party studios! What are you talking about!

> The large upfront cost is lower than it would be because its subsidized by buying the games for it!

This isn't true anymore.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#35

Post by [deleted] »

dabbz wrote: post #17
unpopularopp wrote: post #14

So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? Because you can go to Burger King (Xbox) or KFC (Switch) or Sonic (PC) as well but this group is arguing they want to have a Big Mac but not from McDonald's? Or actually McDonald's doesn't have a monopoly because you can technically buy a Big Mac from Uber Eats or Doordash?

Your analogy falls apart somewhere for me but I can't pinpoint the exact correction to make your analogy work for me. Either way I agree. If they don't like only being able to buy digital PS games via Sony's platform, go to one where they can. That's not the fight I'd personally focus on. I'd personally focus on them revoking digital access after you've "purchased it". Then again, I don't have a game console and I do…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#36

Post by anigbrowl »

I have mixed feelings about this campaign. Their main ask is that Sony give up exclusivity for the Playstation store, which prevents anyone selling PS games without Sony's approval (and a 30% cut of revenue generated); their main argument is that Sony has total market domination makes it subject to specific EU rules.

I would like if there were other options besides the PS store for PS software, because the hardware is very nice and there are a lot of cool things developers could do with it if they didn't have to worry about compliance with Sony's narrow view of what constitutes digital entertainment and how big a company has to be to be an acceptable media partner. For example it would be nice to use a Playstation for non-game activities (math explorer, sci-fi style news dashboards, weird physics simulations) or have the choice to connect to the Criterion Collection and enjoy obscure media curated for other film snobs like myself, or...

On the other hand, if any malign software infects individual users' Playstations, or undermines the experience of other users who interact with the first group - eg participants in multiplayer games who are impacted by cheating or some sort of exploit - who is going to get blamed? Of course, it will be Sony. They could say 'well we warned you not to use XYZ app store and the only reason XYZ app store exists is that EUrocrats forced us to allow it on our beautiful platform', but no matter who is actually at fault it would be a huge hit to the Sony brand.

Say what you like about the economic and philosophical shortcomings of walled gardens, the reality is that most people find them preferable to a Plants vs Zombies type free-for-all, and I find it hard to blame companies for making a profit by catering to the garden-enjoyers rather than the wilderness-enthusiasts. The latter are after all free to just use some other computing/entertainment platform like Xbox, Steam, etc.; the argument made by campaigners is that they want all the quality of engineering, manufacturing, and access to top games that Sony makes available now, but also the possibility of breaking the hardware and/or the business model that brought it to market. I really think that when it comes to consumer technology, if you don't like the way the company operates you should just not use their products.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#37

Post by Barrin92 »

unpopularopp wrote: post #14

So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? Because you can go to Burger King (Xbox) or KFC (Switch) or Sonic (PC) as well but this group is arguing they want to have a Big Mac but not from McDonald's? Or actually McDonald's doesn't have a monopoly because you can technically buy a Big Mac from Uber Eats or Doordash?

>So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac?

yes, that's called a differentiated product in economics and it confers market power the same way any other monopoly does, Sony controls the Playstation ecosystem, Apple its ecosystem and it gives them leverage over the consumer, those products are not commodities.

That's why pharmaceuticals, patented medical devices or cable and broadband providers are regulated, see net neutrality legislation. Which exists exactly to commoditize information access in a market that's dominated by differentiated providers so they can't exercise their gatekeeping power to drive prices between you and online services up.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#38

Post by braiamp »

If people actually read the claims... it's about fair business practices, this is why they are suing Sony:

> ... In the EU, it is forbidden for large companies to abuse their position to make more profit at the expense of consumers. Yet Sony does not fully abide by these rules. > > If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. Sony keeps the market to itself in this way and can keep prices artificially high. This way you pay more, without getting anything extra in return. This is called the “Sony Tax.”

This is not a lawsuit about Sony "taking away my discs", it's something like "Sony allegedly used its control over the PlayStation ecosystem to restrict competition in digital distribution, allowing it to keep prices artificially high and harm consumers".

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#39

Post by kmeisthax »

unpopularopp wrote: post #14

So McDonald's has a monopoly on the Big Mac? Because you can go to Burger King (Xbox) or KFC (Switch) or Sonic (PC) as well but this group is arguing they want to have a Big Mac but not from McDonald's? Or actually McDonald's doesn't have a monopoly because you can technically buy a Big Mac from Uber Eats or Doordash?

No, they're arguing that you shouldn't have to make your home kitchen a McDonalds franchise in order to eat Big Macs in it.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#40

Post by MBCook »

stingraycharles wrote: post #33
wilg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large upfront cost is lower than it would be because its subsidized by buying the games for it! Sony does make the games, they have many excellent first party studios! What are you talking about!

They make games, they just don’t make all the games. Similar like a grocery store having their own brands in the shelves, you don’t expect to be able to buy these at other shops. And yes the upfront costs being subsidized is exactly the point.

Not quite. Grocery stores make common products and clones.

Sony’s 1st party stuff is (often) exceptional. It’s the reason an Xbox or PC isn’t a complete replacement.

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