Live data from Hacker News

Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

ethw.org

31–40 of 58 posts

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#31

The Elliott 803 computer (a little later) also used magnetic core logic; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_803 Not sure if the principal is similar or not. (There was one down at the Bletchley computing museum many years ago when I went down)

Elliott 803 used mostly transistors, but it indeed also used magnetic cores for some of its logic gates.

The operating principle was different than that of the parametron, but the end effect was about the same. It used highly non-linear magnetic cores, which could not be switched by one or a few current pulses coming through wires passing through them, but enough pulses would switch the core.

This kind of logic gate, where many inputs are added and the gate switches when their sum exceeds a certain threshold, can be implemented with a wide variety of devices.

The so-called resistor-transistor logic, which was used in some early computers and there were even integrated circuits based on it, works in the same way. When enough of the input resistors are connected to high voltages, the voltage raises enough to switch on the transistor that follows the resistor network.

The logic gates with magnetic cores of Elliott 803 worked in the same way, even if they summed the magnetic fields of currents through wires and the switching threshold was determined by a non-linear magnetic core.

The neurons also use a logic of the same type, i.e. they switch on when enough synapses are excited, even if there are a lot of extra complications, as some synapses are inhibitory and the threshold for switching on is not a constant, but it is variable, depending on the history of the previous excitations.

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#32
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s literally a paragraph from TFA. https://ethw.org/Milestones:Parametron,_1954#Invention_of_th...

[flagged]

It is fine to call out AI if it is annoying.

Someone hunting for things that might be AI and polluting discussions with it is a service I did not sign up for.

Besides it is my opinion that not all AI detectors are reliable and this might currently be a big problem in some cases, especially in education.

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#33
post #4

>Eiichi Goto Is it nominative determinism if it's 2 years before the introduction of Goto (1956, Fortran apparently) Or maybe it was named in his honour?

While the first public release of Fortran was in 1956, its design started in 1954 and the GOTO statement was already included in the preliminary Fortran from 1954.

Besides the inventor of parametron, there is also Kazushige Goto, who became famous after writing in 2002 the library GotoBLAS, which was for some years the fastest library for linear algebra and which inspired all later such libraries. He later worked at Microsoft, then at Intel.

What is funny is that searching right now "Kazushige Goto" in Bing, it immediately returned a confident AI answer that "Kazushige Goto was a Japanese scientist who invented the parametron in 1954 while he was a ...".

I pity those who believe any of the AI answers that most search engines force now upon their users.

I wonder if there is any relationship between the 2 Goto, but it is unlikely, because Goto is not rare among the Japanese family names.

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#34
post #4

>Eiichi Goto Is it nominative determinism if it's 2 years before the introduction of Goto (1956, Fortran apparently) Or maybe it was named in his honour?

Goto (as in "Go to") and Goto (as in the romaji version of one of 後藤, 五藤, 五島, …) is simple two things that sound/look the same when written in ASCII w/o spaces. :)

As a family name, it seems to be:

後藤

where the first character means "behind" or "back" and the second character refers to wisteria vines.

(The first character is familiar to some of the martial arts practitioners, because it has an alternative pronunciation, "kō" instead of "go", which is used in the expression "kō-kutsu-shitsu", which is normally abbreviated to "kō-kutsu", and which means "with the back knee bent".)

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#35

Meanwhile, in the US, the Univac Solid State computer[1] used similar principles in its patented[3] "Solid State Logic"[2], and was also released in 1958. My understanding is that the magnetic amplifiers used in the V2 rocket kicked off a lot of interesting uses of magnetic cores. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIVAC_Solid_State [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_logic [3] https://patents.google.com/paten…

Magnetic amps were indeed used in the V2 in the control electronics.

But they substantially predate World War II and were once widely deployed and widely understood. The technology goes back to at least the late 19th century. It was used in many of the places where we'd use an amplifier today, like to run signals in a factory where hydraulics are not practical.

They can be quite fast - if the AC supply is well into the 10s of KHz they can reproduce audio range frequencies.

Some of the first electronic radio transmitters were based on the magnetic amplifier. The radio pioneer Reginald Fessenden developed a system using his Alexanderson alternator (a super-high-speed AC generator) which produced high power (many kilowatts) of AC at the target carrier frequency of around 30 kHz. He then fed the output of that, through a large magnetic amplifier, governing the kilowatts of generator output, with a small control current from a switch or microphone -- amplitude modulation. That was c. 1916.

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#36

EAC-1101 In March 1958, NEC finished its first digital computer, the NEAC-1101. This machine used parametrons, invented by Eiichi Goto in 1954, and was perfected by using a single-turn transformer coupling system independently devised by NEC. This computer was designed for scientific and engineering calculations, and was Japan's first computer to use floating point operations. It was capable of decimal 7-digit floati…

Some years later, Goto was considered harmful :-)

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#37
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s literally a paragraph from TFA. https://ethw.org/Milestones:Parametron,_1954#Invention_of_th...

[flagged]

Maybe the text should include some extraneous war crime solicitation to ensure a human wrote it. Maybe we should all do so. Death to (insert random enemy here)

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#38

Meanwhile, in the US, the Univac Solid State computer[1] used similar principles in its patented[3] "Solid State Logic"[2], and was also released in 1958. My understanding is that the magnetic amplifiers used in the V2 rocket kicked off a lot of interesting uses of magnetic cores. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIVAC_Solid_State [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_logic [3] https://patents.google.com/paten…

I wrote an article on the history of magnetic amplifiers: https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-vacuum-tubes-forgotten-rival

The quick summary is that magnetic amplifiers started in the US in 1901, but Germany came up with much better magnetic alloys during World War II. This led to a post-war boom in mag amps, which were used in industrial control, aerospace, and computers such as the Univac Solid State. These magnetic materials also led to core memory. Transistors mostly killed off mag amps, although PC power supplies used them into the 1990s.

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#39
The history of computing is usually described as a nice progression from vacuum tubes to transistors and then ICs. But parametrons are only one of the many forgotten technologies that popped up along the way. Magnetic core logic such as transfluxors was used in several computers. Superconducting cryotrons were going to revolutionize computers. Tunnel-diode logic was also briefly the wave of the future. Other significant technologies were microwave logic circuits and electroluminescent logic circuits. I have to say that the 1950s came up with the best names; modern technologies just don't measure up to transfluxors, parametrons, and cryotrons.

See Digital Computer Design Fundamentals, 1962, chapter 6.

Re: Parametron: 50s Japanese computer that uses neither transistors nor vacuum tubes

#40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is fine to call out AI if it is annoying. Someone hunting for things that might be AI and polluting discussions with it is a service I did not sign up for. Besides it is my opinion that not all AI detectors are reliable and this might currently be a big problem in some cases , especially in education.

I’ll actually respond to you because everyone else has that dog piling tone as if they haven’t seen any of the other comments.

That’s a fair point. I was probably being too bullish on this and shouldn’t have said anything.

Post reply on HN