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Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

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Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#31

Post by petre »

SEJeff wrote: post #24
asveikau wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't zwave use a different frequency, and zigbee and thread are both 2.4ghz? Perhaps that makes it a more fair comparison?

Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with: - WiFi - Bluetooth - microwave ovens Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be c…

On Europe the 860MHz band is subject to more restrictive transmission duty cycles, LBT or FHSS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-range_device#SRD860

In the US you also have the FCC reshaping the 900 MHz for industrial broadband and NextNav. So there will be more competition.

https://www.nemko.com/blog/fcc-reshapes-the-900-mhz-band-for...

https://www.landisgyr.com/br/pt/home/knowledge/blog/Navigati...

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#32

Post by parineum »

SEJeff wrote: post #24
asveikau wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't zwave use a different frequency, and zigbee and thread are both 2.4ghz? Perhaps that makes it a more fair comparison?

Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with: - WiFi - Bluetooth - microwave ovens Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be c…

All it costs is significantly more money and less options.

If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper.

You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee but that's pretty niche, to say the least.

Having previously been all zwave then moved and tried to go matter but ended up with zigbee, I wish I never listened to people saying what you are. As far as I'm concerned, zwave doesn't know it's dead yet and Matter isn't going to fulfill it's promises because the corporate interests that wouldn't give you local control with zigbee aren't suddenly going to change their minds because it says matter now.

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#33

Post by SuperMouse »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #30
walrus01 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, and also that if someone is buying stuff new, it should be exclusively zwave800 stuff. example hardware on the "hub" end would be: https://www.home-assistant.io/connect/zwa-2/ https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zst39-z-wave-long-range-usb-sti... the zooz is this internally: https://www.silabs.com/wireless/z-wave/800-series-modem-soc/...

Do you really need long antenna? I noticed zwave can act as a mesh.

Most likely it's not a super robust transmission mode like LoRa (that works down to -145dBm). Having a well designed antenna with a good pattern help a lot then.

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#34

Post by margalabargala »

mrheosuper wrote: post #29
walrus01 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, and also that if someone is buying stuff new, it should be exclusively zwave800 stuff. example hardware on the "hub" end would be: https://www.home-assistant.io/connect/zwa-2/ https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zst39-z-wave-long-range-usb-sti... the zooz is this internally: https://www.silabs.com/wireless/z-wave/800-series-modem-soc/...

another protocol/wireless stack? Why can't we settle down to something that is at least "good enough"?

Because zwave is proprietary. There's money to be made here! Can you imagine the lost profit potential if people standardize on an open protocol like ZigBee?

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#35

Post by margalabargala »

SEJeff wrote: post #4

I’m a bit surprised they didn’t add zwave into this comparison.

They're probably only comparing open protocols. If one doesn't care if their protocol is proprietary then sure one might consider zwave. But it's hardly "surprising" that it's left out.

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#36

Post by amarcheschi »

vdfs wrote: post #2

These protocols add so much complications it makes wifi/tcp/ip a blaze They fix some problems but add more, you endup just like that xckd about protocols

I studied zigbee protocol for an exam and while everything is there for a reason, it truly feels diabolical

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#37

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

parineum wrote: post #32
SEJeff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with: - WiFi - Bluetooth - microwave ovens Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be c…

All it costs is significantly more money and less options. If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper. You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee…

But Matter _is_ locally-controlled. Matter-over-Thread is better as there's no side channels to abuse; Matter-over-Wifi also guarantees local control though the presence of Wifi means a high probability of some additional onboard software bloat the manufacturer can use to enshittify the product if you're not careful.

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#38

Post by SEJeff »

margalabargala wrote: post #35
SEJeff wrote: post #4

I’m a bit surprised they didn’t add zwave into this comparison.

They're probably only comparing open protocols. If one doesn't care if their protocol is proprietary then sure one might consider zwave. But it's hardly "surprising" that it's left out.

What? The entire specification is in this git repo maintained by the home assistant team. Also, they’re on the zwave board now. It’s wholly open, but wasn’t maybe 4-5 years ago.

https://github.com/zwave-js/specs

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#39

Post by SEJeff »

margalabargala wrote: post #34
mrheosuper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

another protocol/wireless stack? Why can't we settle down to something that is at least "good enough"?

Because zwave is proprietary. There's money to be made here! Can you imagine the lost profit potential if people standardize on an open protocol like ZigBee?

It is so proprietary in fact all of the spec is on github:

https://github.com/zwave-js/specs

Re: Zigbee vs. Matter over Thread:Understanding IoT Protocol Performance in Practice

#40

Post by wao0uuno »

parineum wrote: post #32
SEJeff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with: - WiFi - Bluetooth - microwave ovens Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be c…

All it costs is significantly more money and less options. If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper. You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee…

My entire “smart” home setup is built with Matter over Thread. It’s fully local. No internet access required. With Home Assistant onboarding can be done without a smartphone now. Devices without official certification work but probably only in Home Assistant.
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