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How the God of Israel Was Born

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Re: How the God of Israel Was Born

#31

Post by everdrive »

mcphage wrote: post #14
everdrive wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere on /r/academicbiblical there is some refutation of a link between (c) and (b) but I can't find it while I'm at work right now. I can try to dig it up tonight if you're interesting. I'm not claiming it's strictly correct, just that there is at least serious argument against the possibility that Zoarastrianism was the main driver behind the development of Israelite monotheism.

I’m not the person you’re replying to, but I’m interested if you could find that link later.

Here you are! Whether or not you find them compelling is up to you :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xrynt2/why_i...

-- linked from /r/academicbiblical in this discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/1j1qx7q/v...

Re: How the God of Israel Was Born

#32

Post by mcphage »

everdrive wrote: post #31
mcphage wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not the person you’re replying to, but I’m interested if you could find that link later.

Here you are! Whether or not you find them compelling is up to you :) https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xrynt2/why_i... -- linked from /r/academicbiblical in this discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/1j1qx7q/v...

Thank you! I don’t know much about Zoroastrianism, and that discussion jumps right into the deep end, but I’ll see what I can get from it. :-)

Re: How the God of Israel Was Born

#33

Post by pseudohadamard »

dekervin wrote: post #7
andsoitis wrote: post #2

There are 3 major strands of monotheism: a) Atenism in Egypt (c. 1350 BCE) b) Israelite / Hebrew c) Zoroastrianism in Persia While some scholars (like Freud) have proposed a link between (a) and (b), it remains contested and unproven. What is, however, likely, is a link between (c) and (b), specifically that Zoroastrianism likely influenced Second Temple Judaism during the period of Persian rule over Judea, particula…

That conclusion come from unknowingly defining monotheism as a religious tradition that is close or can be related to the israelite tradition. It's tautological. In reality many human societies throughout the ages have been monotheists.

Also, Christianity at least has never been truly monotheistic. For example the Second Council of Constantinople (I think that was the one) had to go in and weed out the great mass of pre-Christian cruft that had been snuck back in, old Babylonian and Hebrew supernatural entities cunningly disguised as "angels", and then more recently you've got the global veneration of Mary and, although this has mostly faded in the last 100 years, saints, also serving the role that lesser gods served in other religions but carefully fitted up to not make it heresy.

Islam, from my limited knowledge, does seem to be purely monotheistic despite at least one attempt to reconcile with followers of the goddesses Lat, Uzza, and Manat.

Re: How the God of Israel Was Born

#34

Post by Brendinooo »

jtr1 wrote: post #16
Brendinooo wrote: post #15

This tweet thread was pretty formative to me: makes one remember that textual criticism of the sort that’s linked here is by no means the final word on these matters. https://x.com/omnologos/status/1870847422454280672

This tweet is written as parody, but it seems self-evident from reading Trump's tweets that they do not all come directly from the president himself. Most political offices delegate social media to an internal team, presenting as if from a unified "source" when really they speak for an organization. Given the fierce competing factions within the administration - and the sort of kreminology political reporting has bee…

I mean...don't overcomplicate it, the President is the one who is speaking.

Is he influenced by people in the room? Sure. But to say that with the intent of it being a rebuttal to what I offered completely misses the point.

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