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Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

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31–40 of 54 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#31
post #19

Because it is the reason the US is a tech hub in the first place ? No immigration means no concentration of talent, which means companies would just move to a country that allows that (e.g. Ireland) and they'll take their high-paying jobs with them.

Silicon Valley industry grew big before major tech immigrant inflows. Also, you're assuming that US people can't do the jobs of visa people.

We're talking early boom? Like WW2 era? It was more industrial. If we are defining tech worker as a person that worked at a factory for technology, I am pretty sure there is a history of immigration there too.

I don't think we could cleanly say either way though, it would come down to nitpicking the definition of "tech worker". I have no real interest in that, and will grant you could look at it either way.

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#33

You might as well ask why US tech workers are in favour of computer science education when it clearly does not benefit them that new people learn to code etc.

That’s a whataboutism. The original question is why many US tech workers support open borders for tech labor when the supply increase primarily hits the wages and bargaining power of workers already here.

I support open borders (yes open borders) because I support human rights. Migration is natural and human. Limiting migration limits people's ability to improve their circumstance. Closed borders also limit society's ability to benefit from migranta because they are stuck in an unproductive situation.

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a whataboutism. The original question is why many US tech workers support open borders for tech labor when the supply increase primarily hits the wages and bargaining power of workers already here.

I support open borders (yes open borders) because I support human rights. Migration is natural and human. Limiting migration limits people's ability to improve their circumstance. Closed borders also limit society's ability to benefit from migranta because they are stuck in an unproductive situation.

Meant to reply to op

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#35
I support open borders (yes open borders) because I support human rights. Migration is natural and human. Limiting migration limits people's ability to improve their circumstance. Closed borders also limit society's ability to benefit from migranta because they are stuck in an unproductive situation.

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#36

I support open borders (yes open borders) because I support human rights. Migration is natural and human. Limiting migration limits people's ability to improve their circumstance. Closed borders also limit society's ability to benefit from migranta because they are stuck in an unproductive situation.

How many people do think would move into the US within the next couple of years if the country opened its borders to everyone? I think it's somewhere between a hundred million and a billion people. There are billions of people on Earth for whom having a crappy job in the US is a dream scenario compare to their current circumstances. Many of them would move if they could. Hell, millions of people are already literally walking through Central America jungles and deserts to live in the US illegally - that shows you how attractive it is, even if at risk of being deported at any moment.

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#37
post #36

I support open borders (yes open borders) because I support human rights. Migration is natural and human. Limiting migration limits people's ability to improve their circumstance. Closed borders also limit society's ability to benefit from migranta because they are stuck in an unproductive situation.

How many people do think would move into the US within the next couple of years if the country opened its borders to everyone? I think it's somewhere between a hundred million and a billion people. There are billions of people on Earth for whom having a crappy job in the US is a dream scenario compare to their current circumstances. Many of them would move if they could. Hell, millions of people are already literally…

If they can travel that far with so few resources, surely they have some good ideas and can get things done - why do we want to discourage that? If people can come freely, they can leave freely too.

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#38
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Ukraine/Russia change your view at all? Russia would sure like freedom of movement and trade there. But forget the military/self defense issues. Consider the word "jurisdiction". It literally means getting to say what the law is. Well, if you have a place where US law is in force, and another place where Chinese law is in force, you have to have a border, a place where the law switches from one to the other. Or…

There could be a border, where the law and currency change. But people could still be free to cross that border. I don't know what you mean with the russia/Ukraine thing, bringing a tank over the border would obviously be illegal in either legal system.

How about bringing Little Green Men across the border? Isn't stopping that a good idea? Isn't that part of what (current-style) borders are for?

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#39
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people do think would move into the US within the next couple of years if the country opened its borders to everyone? I think it's somewhere between a hundred million and a billion people. There are billions of people on Earth for whom having a crappy job in the US is a dream scenario compare to their current circumstances. Many of them would move if they could. Hell, millions of people are already literally…

If they can travel that far with so few resources, surely they have some good ideas and can get things done - why do we want to discourage that? If people can come freely, they can leave freely too.

Suicidal empathy...

Re: Ask HN: Why are US tech workers so pro open borders?

#40
a) I'm the descendant of immigrants (half of my grandparents were born overseas and naturalized... my grandmother technically naturalized twice), and I can't justify it was fine for them to be here, but it's not fine for others to immigrate.

b) A lot of my circle of contacts are immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. I can't justify it's fine for them to be here, but it's not fine for others to immigrate.

c) A large portion of the leaders of companies I've worked at are immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. I can't justify it's fine for them to be here, but it's not fine for others to immigrate.

Following onto c, those people who immigrate here, and start companies that hire me have clearly benefited me.

I don't know how I really feel about open borders. I'm fine with reasonable policies limiting immigration. I think you'll find consensus that the current US policies on immigration are not reasonable, although there's definitely not consensus on in which direction the rules should change. I think the immigration categories are roughly ok, although there's clearly some gaming in E1; but I think the way numeric limitations work and how some categories have to wait 20 years for their priority date to come up could use some help.

Numeric limitations by country of origin doesn't feel equitable when countries have vastly different populations and land areas, it doesn't feel fair that Liechtenstein's whole population could immigrate through the numerically limited categories in 2 years, assuming sufficient slack in worldwide numbers, but most countries would take hundreds of years for their whole population to make it through the numerically limited categories.

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