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Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

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Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans' political education has been deliberately hobbled. An educated person (let alone a journalist) in most of the rest of the developed world (and lots of the developing world) would know instinctively not to call an executive a "worker". That said, I believe there probably are workers (in the sense of having the same class interests as other workers rather than the owners, like an executive does) in the Bay A…

The class division you're inferring just doesn't exist within Silicon Valley tech companies. Mid-level executives are overwhelmingly people who started as what you'd consider a worker and grew into that role. (There is something of a class divide between Silicon Valley companies, although not one that aligns well with typical Marxist analysis.)

Being promoted to management doesn't make you not management, if I'm understanding what you're saying. That's how most (middle) managers are minted in every industry I'm aware of: promoting line workers. That doesn't mean those newly-promoted managers have the same class interests as the people they manage. I work in tech but only in big firms and never in the Bay Area, so perhaps there is some nuance I'm missing?

Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The class division you're inferring just doesn't exist within Silicon Valley tech companies. Mid-level executives are overwhelmingly people who started as what you'd consider a worker and grew into that role. (There is something of a class divide between Silicon Valley companies, although not one that aligns well with typical Marxist analysis.)

Being promoted to management doesn't make you not management, if I'm understanding what you're saying. That's how most (middle) managers are minted in every industry I'm aware of: promoting line workers. That doesn't mean those newly-promoted managers have the same class interests as the people they manage. I work in tech but only in big firms and never in the Bay Area, so perhaps there is some nuance I'm missing?

Marxist class analysis was developed for situations where that wasn't the case. The clearest example in the US would be trucking (and it's not a coincidence that trucking has one of the highest unionization rates): the people directing where trucks should go have often never driven one themselves, and the people driving the trucks rarely expect that if they drive well for a few years they'll be promoted out of a driving position.

My understanding is that outside the US this dynamic is more common in a variety of industries.

Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#33

Big company layoffs are probably more aligned with offshoring than AI, but they'll never admit it. Zuckerbergs 8 billion dollar VR metaverse flop has something to do with this maybe? Last time I checked AI isn't killing jobs if the other news is to be believed.

Offshore engineers tend to require just as much micromanagement and perfect clarification as an LLM, so if anything I would expect the demand for offshore engineers to fall much faster than for local talent.

Bad offshore engineering teams may need that. The other teams that work as you should you just don't hear about.

Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being promoted to management doesn't make you not management, if I'm understanding what you're saying. That's how most (middle) managers are minted in every industry I'm aware of: promoting line workers. That doesn't mean those newly-promoted managers have the same class interests as the people they manage. I work in tech but only in big firms and never in the Bay Area, so perhaps there is some nuance I'm missing?

Marxist class analysis was developed for situations where that wasn't the case. The clearest example in the US would be trucking (and it's not a coincidence that trucking has one of the highest unionization rates): the people directing where trucks should go have often never driven one themselves, and the people driving the trucks rarely expect that if they drive well for a few years they'll be promoted out of a driv…

Yeah I mean Marx himself lived in a world where the aristocracy was still a going concern. Still, management is fundamentally aligned with ownership. If anything, the dynamic you're citing (line workers being promoted into the lower rungs of management) means that line workers themselves have incentive to align themselves with ownership (as a way of auditioning for the job of doing that for money, as management). It definitely doesn't make the managers less aligned with ownership. There are good reasons management can't join a union.

Again, this is basic political education everywhere else in the world. This is what other countries' schoolchildren are learning while ours are learning why it was actually good and necessary to nuke Japan, how "manifest destiny" is also ultimately good and moral, and how the Civil War was mainly about something abstract called "states' rights".

Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offshore engineers tend to require just as much micromanagement and perfect clarification as an LLM, so if anything I would expect the demand for offshore engineers to fall much faster than for local talent.

Bad offshore engineering teams may need that. The other teams that work as you should you just don't hear about.

I find it more similar to LLM use and prompting style, I’ve taken many teams that Product Managers and non technical founders considered to be bad, and spoke a more universal programming and system architecture language with clearer scope and continuity of tasks to unlock their capabilities

Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#36

Big company layoffs are probably more aligned with offshoring than AI, but they'll never admit it. Zuckerbergs 8 billion dollar VR metaverse flop has something to do with this maybe? Last time I checked AI isn't killing jobs if the other news is to be believed.

Offshore engineers tend to require just as much micromanagement and perfect clarification as an LLM, so if anything I would expect the demand for offshore engineers to fall much faster than for local talent.

That's quite the interesting assumption. As an "offshore" engineer, I have worked with hundreds of US engineers and none of them were significantly more competent than me if they were. No micromanagement required.

Re: Tech Workers Face Evaporating Financial Security as AI Transforms Industry

#37
post #5

Big company layoffs are probably more aligned with offshoring than AI, but they'll never admit it. Zuckerbergs 8 billion dollar VR metaverse flop has something to do with this maybe? Last time I checked AI isn't killing jobs if the other news is to be believed.

Zuck has spent more than 8 billion on the metaverse

How much? I think I got 8 bill from AI so ....
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