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Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

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Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#31

Post by hagbard_c »

wolvoleo wrote: post #26
jeroenhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is that Apple does not permit regional binaries, so you cannot use the same listing in the EU/Japan/Brazil/whatever other place may force Apple to act sociable and the rest of the world. Creating a separate app would work, but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. Yo…

Hmm it worked for Microsoft and other companies have also done a switch as you pointed out (I remember facebook splitting off messenger and later putting it back). > Furthermore, developers cannot actually use the released app they've made if they're in the US, where a lot of Firefox devs are. Yeah that's a bit insane.

Well, there's a solution to this: ditch that fruit phone until the fruit factory allows owners to use their hardware with the software they want. Let them click some boxes that yes, they understand that they'll leave the boundaries of fruity fruitland and beyond this checkbox dragons abide so abandon all hope all who enter here but otherwise let them install the software they want.

...

Yes, I thought so too, they won't, not without a court order. Now that several courts have ordered such and there is a precedent which makes clear that those dragons aren't all that fierce the fruit factory shouldn't have any excuses any more but that doesn't bother them just as long as the true believers keep on coming for their indulgences. Hence, ditch that thing and maybe they'll get the message.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#32

Post by gattilorenz »

Shank wrote: post #30

So close to something you could install in Japan via AltStore: > One or more apps in source "Reynard Browser" are missing a marketplaceID. This most likely means they are not notarized, which is not supported by this version of AltStore. I'm really looking to a successful version of a Gecko browser that can be installed with just AltStore via the Japanese law.

Can’t you use notarized AltStore to install AltStore original, and from there install Firefox? I did that earlier today in EU.

I just wish they had a different name now for AltStore Original… telling them apart from the icon is basically impossible

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#33

Post by ComputerGuru »

BoppreH wrote: post #24
dotdi wrote: post #4

A bit of context: Apple is being forced by different jurisdictions (EU, UK, Japan) to allow third-party browser engines. In all other regions it's still not allowed to use them. Apple has been maliciously compliant, putting up roadblocks to testing and distribution. For example, the existing Firefox iOS app cannot be simply updated to use Gecko/Servo; it needs to be a new app. As far as I know, none of the major brow…

The other requirements are also pretty vague and give Apple full discretion to remove browsers they don't like: https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi... > Use memory-safe programming languages, or features that improve memory safety within other languages, within the alternative web browser engine at a minimum for all code that processes web content; > Adopt the latest security mitigations (for…

Why do I have a sneaky feeling Safari for iOS isn’t fully written in a fully memory safe language?

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#35

Post by ComputerGuru »

rubnogueira wrote: post #11

This is great and long overdue for outdated devices! Those devices are forced to use an ancient Safari version of WebKit which includes tons of vulnerabilities that are not patched anymore, and same time doesn't support modern ECMAScript functionalities. With a modern browser engine, those old devices can be used for valid browser usage.

> This is great

Absolutely spectacular, indeed…

> and long overdue for outdated devices!

I would pause here and reflect. There is zero chance this performs better (speed, latency, memory, battery life, etc) than Safari on iPhones since the latter has been heavily optimized over the decades for this exact use case. Older devices not even getting iOS updates are likely the devices that will work worst with this software in its current form.

Of course if Apple had allowed third party browser engines from the start, it would likely be a much more even playing field!

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#36

Post by ebiester »

hagbard_c wrote: post #31
wolvoleo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm it worked for Microsoft and other companies have also done a switch as you pointed out (I remember facebook splitting off messenger and later putting it back). > Furthermore, developers cannot actually use the released app they've made if they're in the US, where a lot of Firefox devs are. Yeah that's a bit insane.

Well, there's a solution to this: ditch that fruit phone until the fruit factory allows owners to use their hardware with the software they want. Let them click some boxes that yes, they understand that they'll leave the boundaries of fruity fruitland and beyond this checkbox dragons abide so abandon all hope all who enter here but otherwise let them install the software they want . ... Yes, I thought so too, they wo…

Or, perhaps, apple users are rational actors that have different weights to their tradeoffs than you.

The last time I checked Android, the security and privacy story was much worse than Apple. Further, it's not just me who has to make the change - it's the family I share photos and videos and other things.

Yes, I would prefer to have other App Store options, but it is balanced against other issues. (And yes, I have owned an Android phone before - every time I buy a new phone I compare the two again.)

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#37

Post by lmorchard »

ghusto wrote: post #15
jeroenhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is that Apple does not permit regional binaries, so you cannot use the same listing in the EU/Japan/Brazil/whatever other place may force Apple to act sociable and the rest of the world. Creating a separate app would work, but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. Yo…

Sorry, but I don't buy any of that. I've been defending Mozilla for years, but enough's enough. > but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. You'd end with a Google Meet/Microsoft Teams situation (where one app is labeled "new" and it confuses the hell out of everyone) You're ma…

> I'd say Mozilla should take the money they're spending on their current nonsense and spend it here instead.

Mozilla makes roughly $500m per year with maybe $1.5b in the bank. That's about 1-2 orders of magnitude short of what would be required to poke Apple in the eye and make them feel it.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#38

Post by lmorchard »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #35
rubnogueira wrote: post #11

This is great and long overdue for outdated devices! Those devices are forced to use an ancient Safari version of WebKit which includes tons of vulnerabilities that are not patched anymore, and same time doesn't support modern ECMAScript functionalities. With a modern browser engine, those old devices can be used for valid browser usage.

> This is great Absolutely spectacular, indeed… > and long overdue for outdated devices! I would pause here and reflect. There is zero chance this performs better (speed, latency, memory, battery life, etc) than Safari on iPhones since the latter has been heavily optimized over the decades for this exact use case. Older devices not even getting iOS updates are likely the devices that will work worst with this softwar…

Yeah, this is a real thing: Mozilla doesn't have a team dedicated optimizing Gecko-based Firefox for iOS just in case it can be shipped someday. That Firefox can be built and will run on iOS doesn't mean it will immediately be a great browser there - there are some things you just don't know to optimize until you've gotten the thing into a lot of users' hands over a decent span of time.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#39

Post by lmorchard »

ghusto wrote: post #14
wolvoleo wrote: post #2

The biggest question imo is why does Mozilla not do this

I'm tired of defending Mozilla here, so I have to say that working on their web browser is not a priority for them. In fact, it seems like they're interested in everything _but_ working on Firefox.

The Firefox repo gets 100-300 changesets per day, up to 1000 commits per week. Around 100-150 contributors land those in any given week. That's activity comparable to Linux or Chromium. And, the release schedule is accelerating from a four-week cadence to a two-week cadence this fall.

Just because other efforts and initiatives are flasher or noisier doesn't mean Firefox isn't the main priority.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#40

Post by wolvoleo »

hagbard_c wrote: post #31
wolvoleo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm it worked for Microsoft and other companies have also done a switch as you pointed out (I remember facebook splitting off messenger and later putting it back). > Furthermore, developers cannot actually use the released app they've made if they're in the US, where a lot of Firefox devs are. Yeah that's a bit insane.

Well, there's a solution to this: ditch that fruit phone until the fruit factory allows owners to use their hardware with the software they want. Let them click some boxes that yes, they understand that they'll leave the boundaries of fruity fruitland and beyond this checkbox dragons abide so abandon all hope all who enter here but otherwise let them install the software they want . ... Yes, I thought so too, they wo…

I'm on Android for this reason but it's not ideal either, Google is clamping down a lot. But yeah an Apple phone just won't work for me, there are wayyy too many things I need daily that won't work on Apple.
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