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ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

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Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#31

Post by ChrisArchitect »

Feel like alot has happened since (2023). Mastodon/fediverse didn't take off in the way many thought it might at the time, with various silo/controversies, limitations on network effect, and general public uptake dwindling. Acknowledging that a good chunk of the public wants a centralized service is a thing (despite all the problems with that down the road etc etc). Some like it and have found their community on various servers, good. Meanwhile AT Proto has put a lot of work into getting devs on board with building things on the protocol etc and a snazzy new website recently https://atproto.com/. Not arguing that Bluesky is wildly successful, with stagnating growth etc but as with fediverse, many have found community there as well. But again, since 2023, there has been change and developments as far as people interested in external PDS etc putting the work in (Eurosky, Blacksky etc). Not even mentioning Meta's Threads, with again, some finding community there (tho how they even arrived there is one thing (instagram forced) and Fediverse integration or wider instance support is questionable).

All of these things require engineering and social work to grow and it's hit and miss to gather momentum and stickiness.

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#32

Post by jimmydoe »

kmeisthax wrote: post #26

Ok, since everyone's here, I'll ask: what is the credible exit from Bluesky - as in, not ATProto as a whole, but specifically the Bluesky PDS/AppView/etc - right now, in 2026? I have a Bluesky identity that I registered primarily to follow someone that I happened to meet in person while stumping for the Rio Grande Plan[0]. I only have like five posts on it, but I would like to migrate that over to the same domain I a…

Google did:web

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#34

Post by jsmith45 »

kmeisthax wrote: post #26

Ok, since everyone's here, I'll ask: what is the credible exit from Bluesky - as in, not ATProto as a whole, but specifically the Bluesky PDS/AppView/etc - right now, in 2026? I have a Bluesky identity that I registered primarily to follow someone that I happened to meet in person while stumping for the Rio Grande Plan[0]. I only have like five posts on it, but I would like to migrate that over to the same domain I a…

The PLC keys are normally intended to be held by your current PDS. Not a hard protocol requirement, but without it, certain things like migrating to a custom domain handle cannot be done cleanly though the app, and would need to be done manually. It might be a requirement of the bluesky hosted PDSes though, as those have some extra requirements beyond the reference self-hosted PDS.

The fact that BlueSky runs the PLC central server is supposed to be fixed by them creating a swiss association to run and control it instead, but while they announced this, it is unclear if it went anywhere.

If you migrate to a self hosted PDS using the all-in-one migration `goat account migrate` command, it will temporarily change your handle to a subdomain of your new PDS, and leave the new PDS managing the PLC. You can instead perform each step manually via goat or raw API calls, either of which would let you transition to direct PLC key management, and/or a new domain based handle as a single atomic plc update, as part of the overall migration process.

See https://atproto.com/guides/account-migration for a discussion of the process at the protocol level. See https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3l5ii332pf32u for a breakdown of both the automated, and step by step process via `goat`. It does not go into the details of switching to self managed, but it basically requires crafting your new PLC document, sending that one to the old PDS to sign, and then submitting the result. There are manual PLC signing, and submission commands available as `goat plc` subcommands, for use once you have manual control.

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#35

Post by spankalee »

fsflover wrote: post #22
spankalee wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "AT Proto server" - https://overreacted.io/there-are-no-instances-in-atproto/

Which is a misleading message, according to the recent HN discussion, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48599515 .

I don't think it's misleading at all, the comment you're looking to is.

People really do ask where "The AT Proto server is" as evidenced by this thread, and the really is no "AT Proto server" or "instance". AT Proto and BlueSky are a collection of services with no 1-1 relationship to a Mastodon or RSS server.

There's absolutely nothing misleading about that.

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#36

Post by spankalee »

mort96 wrote: post #27
spankalee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how does RSS let you move your data to a new host while preserving your identity like AT Proto does?

Change the DNS record?

Yes, this works if your RSS server has its own DNS record that you control, and is essentially what the Domain Handle -> DID indirection gives you in AT Proto.

What Bluesky and AT Proto in general do is make it easy for people to either get a domain (a *.bsky.social subdomain) or use their own as their handle.

And AT Proto also lets you change your domain while preserving your identity, since the actual identity is a DID.

That makes it very easy to move your data and your handle around and not lose followers. If you change your RSS server's domain name, your subscribers don't come with you.

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#37

Post by kyle-rb »

kmeisthax wrote: post #26

Ok, since everyone's here, I'll ask: what is the credible exit from Bluesky - as in, not ATProto as a whole, but specifically the Bluesky PDS/AppView/etc - right now, in 2026? I have a Bluesky identity that I registered primarily to follow someone that I happened to meet in person while stumping for the Rio Grande Plan[0]. I only have like five posts on it, but I would like to migrate that over to the same domain I a…

If you don't like BlueSky managing your keys, the alternative to did:plc is did:web. Unfortunately, afaiu, it's not possible to migrate[0]. If this is something you really care about, and you trust yourself to manage your own private keys, you should probably bite the bullet and do it now. Make a pinned post on the old account to point to the new one.

That's the one part you can't migrate; everything else you can change while retaining your followers, posts, etc.

Setting your handle to a domain name via DNS[1] is intended to be easy for non-technical users (especially with registrars adding one-click forms for doing so) and also decoupled from actual PDS hosting. Many users just want their handle to reflect their identity on the web, and are ok trusting BlueSky to host their PDS for free.

Migrating to a new PDS is possible in both the cooperative case[2] or in the adversarial case[3]. The gist is that A: you should take regular backups by exporting your account data, and B: if you're using did:plc instead of did:web, you should register a backup key that has a higher priority than the key held by your PDS, so a malicious PDS can't simply migrate you back.

[0] https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/discussions/2705

[1] Alternatively there's an option for HTTP handle resolution instead via `/.well-known/atproto-did`

[2] https://atproto.com/specs/account#pds-account-migration

[3] https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/blog/adversarial-pds-migrat...

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#38

Post by kmeisthax »

jimmydoe wrote: post #32
kmeisthax wrote: post #26

Ok, since everyone's here, I'll ask: what is the credible exit from Bluesky - as in, not ATProto as a whole, but specifically the Bluesky PDS/AppView/etc - right now, in 2026? I have a Bluesky identity that I registered primarily to follow someone that I happened to meet in person while stumping for the Rio Grande Plan[0]. I only have like five posts on it, but I would like to migrate that over to the same domain I a…

Google did:web

There is no mechanism to migrate a did:plc identity to a did:web one (or vice versa). The DID string is morally an SQL primary key.

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#39

Post by kmeisthax »

jsmith45 wrote: post #34
kmeisthax wrote: post #26

Ok, since everyone's here, I'll ask: what is the credible exit from Bluesky - as in, not ATProto as a whole, but specifically the Bluesky PDS/AppView/etc - right now, in 2026? I have a Bluesky identity that I registered primarily to follow someone that I happened to meet in person while stumping for the Rio Grande Plan[0]. I only have like five posts on it, but I would like to migrate that over to the same domain I a…

The PLC keys are normally intended to be held by your current PDS. Not a hard protocol requirement, but without it, certain things like migrating to a custom domain handle cannot be done cleanly though the app, and would need to be done manually. It might be a requirement of the bluesky hosted PDSes though, as those have some extra requirements beyond the reference self-hosted PDS. The fact that BlueSky runs the PLC…

This more or less answered my question in exactly the way I was dreading.

The option to register and manage PLC rotation keys should be built into the Bluesky Appview itself, sitting right next to the existing option to verify a domain with your did:plc string. Having the option only exist as a command line tool means most people aren't going to use it and third-party PDS hosts are going to be a pain in the ass to use for people with data already on Bluesky's PDS.

I'm also not happy about the existence of the PLC directory at all, mostly because it's not really explained all that well in the Bluesky interface. I assumed PDSes were just identified by their domain name (like a Mastodon instance is) - and while that is an option with did:web, it's not the default option, and you cannot migrate an identity between PLC and DNS governance. Hopefully that will change.

Re: ActivityPub over ATProto (2023)

#40

Post by 4lx87 »

spankalee wrote: post #36
mort96 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change the DNS record?

Yes, this works if your RSS server has its own DNS record that you control, and is essentially what the Domain Handle -> DID indirection gives you in AT Proto. What Bluesky and AT Proto in general do is make it easy for people to either get a domain (a *.bsky.social subdomain) or use their own as their handle. And AT Proto also lets you change your domain while preserving your identity, since the actual identity is a…

If the PDS URL is dead, is there a way to find the new canonical PDS? I guess you can theoretically index every log from everywhere and just look for new entries signed by the same key? But there would be no way to know if you have the latest posts without the PDS address.
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