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New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

bbc.com

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Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the impression that (at least some of) those groups contain people of mixed ancestry including European ancestry. Am I wrong? Is the child of a white person and a black person not considered black in the US? Is that not the case form the other groups too?

Mixed Race is a separate census designation which represents an additional 10% of the US. Either way Europeans overestimate American ties to Europe. If you actually visit America in 2026, most culture is either domestic, Asian, or Latino. Heck, the majority of Americans began viewing Asia and not Europe as America's most important partners back in 2009 [0]. [0] - https://www.politico.eu/article/americans-turn-their-b…

Way more than 10%, because Hispanics are not considered mixed race even though most of us are.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#32

New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony I guess it's a secret to the Brits and the BBC. We learned about Swedish colonies in the Delaware Valley area in fifth grade history class. So secret that it had its own U.S. postage stamp, as shown at the top of TFA. There's lots of things that people learned in elementary school in the UK that I don't know about. That doesn't made them a secret.

The title refers to the secrecy related to its founding, not any present-day secrecy. From the text:

> "It started as sort of secret colony," said Deborah-Jean Hoffman, a board member at the New Sweden Centre, which promotes the Delaware Valley's colonial history. "The Swedes weren't flag-planting like the French or the Spanish. The idea was to create an under-the-radar colony where the Dutch wouldn't see them."

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#34
post #17

What an irony - the once European colonies which depended on their motherlands to defend them in an alien land, now become a menace or estranged godfather to Europe.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

> At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe.

> African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%.

Those are cultural identities. The average African American has ~20% European ancestry. Latin Americans vary by country and region of origin, but on the average, they have more European than Native American ancestry.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. That percentage is likely much higher when you factor Latino Americans - the plurality of whom either have indigenous or African ethnic origins. And some of America's richest and most politically powerful st…

> At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. > African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. Those are cultural identities. The average African American has ~20% European ancestry. Latin Americans vary by country and region of origin, but on the average, they have more European than Native Ameri…

Yes, but most do not associate with some form of European identity or solidarity. The overwhelming majority of African Americans do not view Europeans as their kin and vice versa. Same with a plurality of Latinos depending on where they come from as well as their race.

OP's comment represents a very common sentiment and implication I've noticed amongst Europeans:

1. That America is inherently "European" and always will be

2. America has an obligation to Europe over other regions of the world

3. Americans view Europe as more important than other regions of the world

4. That Americans from non-European backgrounds are not in policymaking positions or that our opinions don't affect American political discourse

The Atlanticist world that existed from 1945 to 2008 only existed because the older generation of national security advisors and foreign policy hands in the US were first-generation European immigrants.

Their era is long gone on both sides of the aisle. Culturally, America is much closer now to Latin America or Asia looking at music, television, and fashion. Economically (based on bilateral trade flow), America is much closer to Asia and the Americas than Europe. And even demographically, those with living blood ties to Europe are a fraction of those with living blood ties to Asia or Latin America.

And the rise of "Heritage Americans" as an ethnic identifier also highlights how the one subgroup of white Americans who might have been open to keeping ties with Europe is turning their back on the continent as well.

Asia and the Americas are prepared for such a world, but Europeans still think America has some obligation to help them or treat their states as equals when they are at best junior partners.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least 25% of us Americans have never had blood or ethnic ties with Europe. > African Americans make up around 15% of the US, Asian Americans around 7%, Arab Americans around 1.5%, and Native Americans around 2%. Those are cultural identities. The average African American has ~20% European ancestry. Latin Americans vary by country and region of origin, but on the average, they have more European than Native Ameri…

Yes, but most do not associate with some form of European identity or solidarity. The overwhelming majority of African Americans do not view Europeans as their kin and vice versa. Same with a plurality of Latinos depending on where they come from as well as their race. OP's comment represents a very common sentiment and implication I've noticed amongst Europeans: 1. That America is inherently "European" and always wi…

> Culturally, America is much closer now to Latin America or Asia.

That's an interesting statement. From my perspective, Latin America is clearly European, in the sense I understand the concept. It feels much like Russia. Major cities and densely populated regions are European, with local characteristics. But there are other cultures around, and they are dominant in some regions. And if you travel in fringe areas, you often find peoples that have not fully accepted the European cultural package.

I don't see Europeanness as something associated with specific ethnic groups or states. It's a cultural package that started spreading from the Roman Empire and was imposed upon different peoples at different times. Where I'm from, that happened ~800 years ago, though rural areas often kept to the old pagan ways until the 17th century. That time frame is not too different from what happened in the Americas.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#39

I thought this was going to be about how Sweden’s claimed neutrality is a sham (even more so now that we joined NATO), but I guess it would have been vassal and not colony in the title if that were the case.

The title is misleading because it is suggests it is about a colony of the US (like Phillipines), not a colony on territory which is now US.

Re: New Sweden: the US's long-lost 'secret' colony

#40
> But chances are, almost none of those coming realises that the US's political and ideological birthplace was once part of a little-known Swedish colony known as Nya Sverige (New Sweden).

Or they think Virginia has a strong claim to be "the US's political and ideological birthplace." The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson was from Virginia. The "Father of the Constitution," James Madison, was from Virginia. George Washington was from Virginia.

It's not like only one European country had colonies in the pre-United States.

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