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Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

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Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#31

Post by Aboutplants »

pcrh wrote: post #3

There's a risk of echos of Theranos here. A paper apparently describing this ultrasound approach has been uploaded to arXiv [0]. If so, the resolution demonstrated is nowhere near sufficient to detect small changes to anatomy, let alone monitor them over time. Future developments could obviously improve on that. [0] “Whole Cross-Sectional Human Ultrasound Tomography” https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.00110

It’s literally a little fun side project for them and it’s in no way attempting to make billions by manipulating results. They straight up show and tell the limitations of what they are doing. Theranos was a complete scam from the get go and lied all the way til the end. I don’t see a single similarity

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#32

Post by wongarsu »

xnx wrote: post #25

The new scanning technique is very fancy, but it sounds like people might be better of with boring full body visual imaging to check for skin cancer. If they want an AI angle to that, Midjourney could easily make a digital twin from the scan.

How is only scanning the outside better than checking the inside?

Sure, visual imaging is cheap and high-definition, but it's also a pretty low value product. People can already see the outside of their body. Instead of a fancy full-body visual scanner just give them a pamphlet which things are normal, which are abnormal but harmless and which need a doctor visit.

Seeing the inside of your body on the other hand opens up a lot of things you previously couldn't see. We have to be careful not to overreact and try to "fix" all bodies to fit the image printed in the textbook. But the potential to do real good is huge

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#33

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

roer wrote: post #23
21asdffdsa12 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing ? So totally solveable I dont understand though, why you have to simultanously do this from all sides- have the ultrasound swim around with the patient? Takes out the comlexity? Or use boundary layers to keep the sound on the slice? Turn this cocktail glass full of patient into a tequila sunrise?

As I understood it, they're using the rest of the array to receive when one is transmitting, thus getting signal from the opposite side of the body as well. I don't see how you can do this with just one device.

You are correct. I was wrong. Thanks

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#35

Post by robbiep »

IshKebab wrote: post #12
Fraterkes wrote: post #11

One thing that’s kinda awkward in the video: they mention one of the big shortcomings of ultrasound being that it can’t image “airy” organs like the lungs, and their expert responds to that by mentioning that the amount of angles/devices means that you still get imaging of everything surrounding the lungs. But the critiscism isn’t that the lungs would obstruct you from imaging certain areas, it’s that there’s just ve…

Not being able to image inside the lungs is probably only a minor limitation really. There's also inside the head, and inside the rib cage is going to be awkward too due to bones. Also ultrasound just isn't that good of an imaging technology, even with full aperture. That said, it's non-ionising and if they can make this reasonably cheap ( big if), then it's better than nothing at all. Probably decent for finding can…

You know what already detects breast cancer? Mammograms followed by ultrasound.

We have screening programs for a reason. We know the sensitivity and specificity of these. They are widely available in any rich country that doesn’t treat its citizens like shit. There will absolutely be better stuff out there as we progress, with better sensitivity/specificity and lower harm (everything medical has some harm quotient) but I have a hard time wrapping my head around how they will best physics to provide better than state of the art today with this technology (and bow they will beat availability of current screening systems)

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#36

Post by wongarsu »

21asdffdsa12 wrote: post #17
Fraterkes wrote: post #11

One thing that’s kinda awkward in the video: they mention one of the big shortcomings of ultrasound being that it can’t image “airy” organs like the lungs, and their expert responds to that by mentioning that the amount of angles/devices means that you still get imaging of everything surrounding the lungs. But the critiscism isn’t that the lungs would obstruct you from imaging certain areas, it’s that there’s just ve…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing ? So totally solveable I dont understand though, why you have to simultanously do this from all sides- have the ultrasound swim around with the patient? Takes out the comlexity? Or use boundary layers to keep the sound on the slice? Turn this cocktail glass full of patient into a tequila sunrise?

> I dont understand though, why you have to simultanously do this from all sides- have the ultrasound swim around with the patient? Takes out the comlexity?

One sensor can only see waves that reflect straight back. If you have more sensors (and fire them sequentially, like they do) you can detect pulses that are deflected, and measure the deflection angle. That gives you much better data

I get the impression that what they want is real-time scans, so you can see the organs moving and everything. But that would require a 3d arrangement of sensors, which is too expensive. Instead they have a 2d arrangement and move the sensor relative to the person in 1d. Having only one sensor and moving it in 2d would harm scanning speed and fidelity even more.

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#37

Post by jgrahamc »

roer wrote: post #24

This skepticism is weird to me. I might be overly naive, but it looks like these are people that have funding for doing something they think is cool and think could help people out. Whether or not it turns out that way is something we'll have to see, but the premise of just going ahead and building the thing should be applauded in my opinion

I agree. It's very clearly a research prototype and they are talking about getting it working to do body composition.

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#38

Post by bonoboTP »

roer wrote: post #24

This skepticism is weird to me. I might be overly naive, but it looks like these are people that have funding for doing something they think is cool and think could help people out. Whether or not it turns out that way is something we'll have to see, but the premise of just going ahead and building the thing should be applauded in my opinion

I think the negativity is due to the vibes and framing of the "spa" for rich people to hang out and do some low-key "health optimization", it ties to Silicon Valley longevity stuff, pattern matches with the vibe of cryogenics and other quantified self stuff etc, instead of a vibe of making something that broadly improves the health of the masses and lower classes.

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#39

Post by wongarsu »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #34

getting serious theranos vibes from this

Theranos was claiming things that would be incredibly useful, with technology that doesn't work. This is claiming things of uncertain usefulness, with technology that does work

The common thread is commoditization of medical technology to enable more frequent and useful testing. But 3d ultrasound machines exist and Midjourney's setup looks completely plausible. Their big bet is that it's actually useful in medical applications beyond better baby pictures

Re: Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]

#40

Post by terabytest »

21asdffdsa12 wrote: post #17
Fraterkes wrote: post #11

One thing that’s kinda awkward in the video: they mention one of the big shortcomings of ultrasound being that it can’t image “airy” organs like the lungs, and their expert responds to that by mentioning that the amount of angles/devices means that you still get imaging of everything surrounding the lungs. But the critiscism isn’t that the lungs would obstruct you from imaging certain areas, it’s that there’s just ve…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing ? So totally solveable I dont understand though, why you have to simultanously do this from all sides- have the ultrasound swim around with the patient? Takes out the comlexity? Or use boundary layers to keep the sound on the slice? Turn this cocktail glass full of patient into a tequila sunrise?

You’re suggesting flooding the lungs in order to get a scan?
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