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Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

noahpinion.blog

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Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#31
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people. Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.

#1 recommendation from the same link: Keeping out of the heat: Avoid going out and undertaking strenuous activities when the sun’s at its hottest. Stay in the shade and do not leave children or animals in parked vehicles. If necessary and possible, spend two to three hours in a cool place, such as a supermarket or cinema Sounds like the issue is not hot homes but people simply not knowing how dangerous being outside…

The tell here is that it doesn't just say 'stay at home'.

Most upper latitude European homes have been designed for mid-century cool(er) climates. They are extremely efficient at trapping and holding on to heat. Go look at any sub-reddit for central European cities over the past few days and you'll find multiple reports of 35+C conditions inside homes.

Furthermore, you can find plenty of examples over the past week in those same cities of supermarket and cinema ACs in total failure modes. Not to mention most supermarkets are closed on Sundays.

One real problem outside of the home is that there have been plenty of reported cases of drowning. Unclear if this is just statistical with the mobs of people (some of whom cannot swim, or swim well) who are forced to leave their homes to find relief.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems. Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating d…

> Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution In my European country, people struggle to buy houses, nobody is rushing to do a full house renovation. Furthermore, the consensus is: heat pumps are great for a new home or a full renovation. Installing a heat pump with old-style radiators makes no sense, because the heat pump heats to a low temperature.

You can keep the radiators in place when using mini-split heat pumps..

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#34
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is not a country. Given how many times we must have this conversation, I wonder if you guys are even taught geography in school?

Not yet, at least, but close to (thanks, POTUS). Back to AC... I have to fork out 4000€ to replace an aging AC in a small flat 60sqm (650 sq feet). Just looking out of my window right now I can see 600 similar places, so that's 2.4mil EUR for a couple of (city) blocks. As AC is to be added as it won't replace the winter central heating system we got in most condos -- well that's a lot of money.

Why won't it replace the winter central heating? Can't turn it off?

Or is it because you're in germany and the taxes on electricity actually offset your CoP (Coefficient of Performance)?

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#35
post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

Americans aren't cooling their homes to 64F in the summer, I have no idea where you get that idea. Generally people will cool their homes to somewhere around 72-78F, which is 22.22-25.56C.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#36

I can’t hear this degrowth strawman anymore. There are probably 20 people complaining about people wanting degrowth for everyone who actually advocates for that. It’s not like every politician in Europe is advocating for that.

Degrowth is absolutely not niche in Western Europe. In Germany and NL, it is the new religion along with free Palestine movement.

Take any moderately educated Zillenial and ask them what they feel passionately about.

People are feeling more and more alienated from large scale projects of humanity. They have also given up on religion itself. What remains is a facade of religion where degrowth and Palestine take act as Pseudo Religion.

Here in Germany I see stickers and Graffiti all the time.

“Fuck the big Tech”

“Fuck big oil”

“ChatGPT bad”

These are the kind of flyers I see. Of course I’m leaving out the Palestine stuff here.

There are close to Zero educated people excited about the idea of growth. Ask them and they would tell you they’d rather have all capitalists done away with return to a past when we were all peaceful and not “destroying the planet”.

Obviously I’m not claiming degrowth is majority. I’m claiming that at least within my bubble, zero people are excited about the potential of growth. And non trivial number of people want to kill growth.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#37
post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems. Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating d…

Tech to combine radiator based heat pump heating with cooling is relatively new to the market.

I would have assumed air-con was standard in new built homes in southern Europe and less so once you get to more northern places where the load is mostly heating.

Then there are refits, which add another dimension of cost and difficulty.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#38
post #11

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people. Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.

That's because the US and Europe count heat-related deaths differently. In the US they count deaths caused by heat. In Europe they count deaths worsened by heat.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#40
post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

Americans aren't cooling their homes to 64F in the summer, I have no idea where you get that idea. Generally people will cool their homes to somewhere around 72-78F, which is 22.22-25.56C.

In my experience very few Americans set their A/C to anything above 75F.
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