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Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

clinicaltrialsabundance.blog

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Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#31

Post by freediddy »

chimprich wrote: post #12
davydm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> And they were rushed out This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. > many people still sit with the issues they caused Few medicines are entirely without side effects. The effects of the virus were in general far worse. Millions of lives were saved from the vaccines. > Not a win Apart from the millions of lives that were saved. > at the very least, they red…

The trials missed the fact that younger males under 40 have a material increased risk myocarditis from the vaccine. And when reports of that started coming out, the media and "medical establishment" fought against those reports and said the people who were saying this were "anti-vaxxers". But finally the CDC acknowledged this and added it to their communication without accountability or apologies.

Their reaction was anti-science and driven by ideology and things like this is why trust in the media and medical establishment was destroyed because it was highly visible.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#32

Post by linuxftw »

WarmWash wrote: post #23
johng wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this shouldn't be downvoted simply because they disagree. See that on HN way too often.

It's incorrect though. It's not a matter of opinion that populations with higher vaccination rates saw fewer deaths and lower rates of hospitalization.

Debatable. For one, many people believed the stats were cooked. Hospitals had financial incentives to claim corona cases. They routinely didn't test people for corona if they were vaccinated during the worst part of the outbreak.

Even Pfizer's own trial data submitted to the FDA showed an all-cause mortality higher in the control group than the product group. Of course, they explain all the deaths away.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#33

Post by softwaredoug »

davydm wrote: post #2

[flagged]

The only real risk I’ve been able to find in literature of mRNA vaccines is myocarditis in young men

Occurring in roughly 8 out a million doses. (https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/safety-availabi...)

You make your own risk assessment, but that seems extremely low risk as a drug that prevents millions of deaths

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#34

Post by johng »

WarmWash wrote: post #23
johng wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this shouldn't be downvoted simply because they disagree. See that on HN way too often.

It's incorrect though. It's not a matter of opinion that populations with higher vaccination rates saw fewer deaths and lower rates of hospitalization.

What is incorrect? This is what he said: "And they were rushed out, and many people still sit with the issues they caused. Not a win - at the very least, they reduced the confidence of average people in vaccines and gave credence to the anti-vaxxers. Well done."

So, let's break that down.

1. Were they rushed out? I think we can all agree that yes, they were rushed out and sped up beyond what we had seen typically.

2. Many people still sit with the issues they caused? I think we can all agree that yes, there were side effects that they didn't let us know about or didn't know about themselves. So, I think some people (maybe young, healthy people especially) wish they hadn't been forced to take the vaccine. I think this is likely... but even if you don't, you can't state that it's a fact that it's untrue.

3. Your statement now, that populations with higher vaccination rates saw fewer deaths and hospitalizations? Yes, I think I can agree with that. That has nothing to do with points 1 and 2 above though. It doesn't invalidate either above point, and it won't invalidate point #4 below.

4. At the very least, they reduced the confidence of average people in vaccines and gave creedence to the anti-vaxxers - not a win? -- I can agree with the above statement as well. Given I believe that all of the above are true, this statement is still true. It's not a win long term to have abused the process (even if the net was a positive) and hide information from people and you can't blame those people for now having doubts or reservations.

I think all of the above can be true at the same time. Just my 2c.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#35

Post by freediddy »

johng wrote: post #10
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Or completely violated the law by deleting emails. Using personal emails on purpose to avoid FOIA requests. Then lying to Congress about it. Getting caught red handed in all of the above and still getting a golden parachute. Really sad to see, anyone that lies to Congress should be punished for it.

Why is this being downvoted? Everything said above has been proven true.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#36

Post by linuxftw »

jedberg wrote: post #29
linuxftw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're aware that the J&J was pulled from the market due to cardiac issues, right? It's not a theory that actual people were actually harmed by the products, the only question is risk/reward.

More cardiac issues than the other vaccine options but far less than the virus. If it were the only option it would still be on the market. It was only pulled because better options showed up.

> far less than the virus

Unfortunately, this isn't a claim that can be made. We don't know how many people got the virus, or how many times. And IIRC, the cardiac issues of the virus were mostly in older demographics, the J&J was affecting young a healthy people.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#37

Post by CountHackulus »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #19
chimprich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they were rushed out This implies that corners were cut. They were not. They went through the full regulatory procedures. > many people still sit with the issues they caused Few medicines are entirely without side effects. The effects of the virus were in general far worse. Millions of lives were saved from the vaccines. > Not a win Apart from the millions of lives that were saved. > at the very least, they red…

> They went through the full regulatory procedures. This is a non-argument if you decide to adjust regulatory procedures for that one case.

If you read the article, you'll see that they did in fact meet the full requirements by August 2021. The EAU plus criteria were met quickly, but they did meet every criteria normally used.

Re: Why were Covid vaccine trials so fast?

#38

Post by tbrownaw »

tinfoilhatter wrote: post #28
techteach00 wrote: post #26

There are benefits and costs associated with fast tracking drugs to treat a pandemic. That should be the debates starting point.

[flagged]

How so? I would think that "whose fault is it" and "what can be done about it" are independent questions.
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