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Epidurals are a miracle technology

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Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#31

Post by empath75 »

Roark66 wrote: post #6

It was surprising to see incidence of death by cesarean is almost 13 per 100k. It is commonly thought as the safest way and half of all births in my country are via cesarean.

We had 3 kids, one with an epidural and induced labor and the other 2 were natural child birth, no medication at all, and my wife much preferred the natural child birth -- all of them at at a hospital "birthing center", with a five minute walk to an OR if needed. She was more present emotionally at birth, we were able to walk out of the hospital with our baby a few hours later. She was practically bedridden for a week after the induced labor with the epidural.

Obviously, I'm only a spectator, but the overall experience seemed way less traumatic and stressful for her with the natural child birth, working with midwives and nurses rather than doctors.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#32

Post by thelastgallon »

thelastgallon wrote: post #22
DivingForGold wrote: post #2

Male scheduled for my 3rd epidural with steroids next week for on-going spinal stenosis, relieves pain for a few days, then back to pain. Will go for minimally invasive micro laminectomy next, tired of treating symptoms and not the root cause. In that procedure surgeon will remove parts of lower vertebrae that is pinching the nerve bundle, nerves that progress down each leg. Success rates of better than 70%, it's a g…

Go for surgery if you have neurological symptoms (loss of sensation, motor function, etc). If its pain, try your best to avoid surgery and find the right physiotherapist to help you be pain free. Spine surgery is risky and there is a risk of cascading failures. Don't completely trust any anesthesiologist (pain management) or neurosurgeon (for surgery) or chiropractor or random folks advice to do yoga/stretch. Spend q…

I don't understand the downvotes. If you have any counterpoints, please do share so I can learn instead of downvoting.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#34

Post by PeterHolzwarth »

complianceowll wrote: post #20
DivingForGold wrote: post #2

Male scheduled for my 3rd epidural with steroids next week for on-going spinal stenosis, relieves pain for a few days, then back to pain. Will go for minimally invasive micro laminectomy next, tired of treating symptoms and not the root cause. In that procedure surgeon will remove parts of lower vertebrae that is pinching the nerve bundle, nerves that progress down each leg. Success rates of better than 70%, it's a g…

I understand everyone has different beliefs, and personally, I fall extremely short of what I should be, but I just took some time to pray for you and your procedure. I really hope the root cause is fully resolved.

[flagged]

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#35

Post by thelastgallon »

causality0 wrote: post #28
thelastgallon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go for surgery if you have neurological symptoms (loss of sensation, motor function, etc). If its pain, try your best to avoid surgery and find the right physiotherapist to help you be pain free. Spine surgery is risky and there is a risk of cascading failures. Don't completely trust any anesthesiologist (pain management) or neurosurgeon (for surgery) or chiropractor or random folks advice to do yoga/stretch. Spend q…

I have to cautiously agree with you, with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either and the effectiveness of therapy can differ wildly based on which therapist and what regimen they use. Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery. Frankly I've only just now started getting relief by reducing the amount of we…

> Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery.

Sorry to hear about re-herniation. Thats what I am concerned about. I have multiple disc herniations, one with cauda equina. Multiple neurosurgeons have recommended surgery, but each is going to do a different procedure. I understood as they don't fully understand whats the root cause, everyone wants to do the procedure they are comfortable with and what they've been doing. One wants to cut the disc, another remove lamina, another fusion and something else. I decided its not worth taking the risk when they don't know what they are doing. There are so many reports of failed back syndrome, revision surgeries, cascading failures (because it increases pressure on adjacent discs).

> with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either

Yes, this is true of nearly any profession. We just have to spend significant time researching and troubleshooting with an engineering mindset.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#36

Post by rocqua »

There's a very strong podcast series about the common failure of Epidurals: "The retrievals" season 2, by serial productions. I found it rather eye-opening. The series includes reporting on a conference of the Society for Obstetric Anesthesia and Perinatology (SOAP) where the professionals in this field also found it eye opening. (mostly episode 2)

I don't bring this up to say that actually Epidurals suck, just to bring attention to the fact that they can fail, and that the system has historically handled such failure really poorly, and that the system itself isn't very well aware of this issue. This isn't just opinion from some podcast, but also admitted by the professionals working within this field.

It's also something valuable to be aware of when you or your partner is planning to have an epidural, because there is real space (and even a need) for advocacy for the patient when an epidural fails and the woman giving birth is in excruciating pain.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#37

Post by protonbob »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #34
complianceowll wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand everyone has different beliefs, and personally, I fall extremely short of what I should be, but I just took some time to pray for you and your procedure. I really hope the root cause is fully resolved.

[flagged]

Instead of saying words to one of the many tens of thousands of religious comments that would presumably annoy you, you could also help research on this topic instead of dumping on someone trying to be encouraging who already hedged that not everyone agrees with them.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#38

Post by economistbob »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #34
complianceowll wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand everyone has different beliefs, and personally, I fall extremely short of what I should be, but I just took some time to pray for you and your procedure. I really hope the root cause is fully resolved.

[flagged]

The maker of the universe is not "one of many tens of thousands of gods". You proclaiming that your house has no architect because you read about ancient kids playing with block buildings changes nothing about the architect of your house.

In computer terms, you conflate by ref with by val. An idol is by val. The maker of the universe is spoken of by ref, and not by val.

Learn the difference.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#39

Post by connicpu »

tptacek wrote: post #18
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you until I remember how expensive medical school plus internship is in the US. If doctors cannot pay back their student loans, it doesn't matter. The majority of folks in medical school have family that can support them now - not fixing education will make this even worse. Don't get me wrong. I support state-sponsored health care, especially after moving from the US to Norway over a decade ago. Just the pea…

Medical professionals in the US make multiples of what the same professionals make in Europe.

But in Europe the state also tends to cover their schooling to become a doctor.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#40

Post by wl »

rocqua wrote: post #36

There's a very strong podcast series about the common failure of Epidurals: "The retrievals" season 2, by serial productions. I found it rather eye-opening. The series includes reporting on a conference of the Society for Obstetric Anesthesia and Perinatology (SOAP) where the professionals in this field also found it eye opening. (mostly episode 2) I don't bring this up to say that actually Epidurals suck, just to br…

The problem that The Retrievals deals with is epidurals failing during cesarians, which, they're quick to emphasize, is painful, open abdominal surgery. The not-so-simple solution is to convert to general anesthesia (anesthetic gas, IV propofol, etc). This isn't without its risks to the mother and the child, so there's reluctance on the part of anesthesiologists to go that route if there's other options. The result is unnecessary birth trauma.
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