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LLMs Are Complicated Now

ianbarber.blog

31–40 of 86 posts

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#31
post #29

It's the bitter-lesson to feature-engineering lifecycle. When a technique or technology is new people are making massive gains by just applying it to some use case, or gathering more data for training, or giving it more resources. As time goes on those "bitter lesson" gains start to hit the shallow part of the logistic curve and companies have to start investing more and more effort into engineering for each small, i…

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Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like em-dashes, some people have always done these though. Why are they penalized with immediate AI slop witch hunts? The LLMs didn't come up with these tics out of thin air.

You have to start with the reason there’s a witch hunt. I love reading. I read books (novels) almost every day and I’m almost always perusing a textbook pr an article for my jobs and my hobbies. The signal/noise for entertainment or information was fairly high, then come LLM tools. You start to be interested by the title of an article or a book cover, and then you start reading it and it’s just vapor. Nothing tangibl…

I mean I get it. It bugs me too. And yes, obviously most of the text that people point at as being AI slop is in fact AI slop. At the same time, you also have the other set of asshats that just go respond with things like "AI slop!" to everything when they can't actually be certain. Like I said, some of these AI tells are things that actual real humans do too.

I like your vapor term. For me it's about the content anyways. If it's just some sort of vapid, pointless drivel then I'm not going to like it regardless of who or what wrote it. And in my experience text that strongly correlates with AI tells also strongly correlate with having sparse substance and lots of fluff.

In other words, if people don't like something, just don't read it. Shouting at people for AI generated text just makes you look foolish if the text is not in fact AI generated. And the person shouting "AI slop!" has no way to prove it other than vibes.

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reply was AI written.

Lol, no. I've always sounded like that, and there are decades of my writing online. Also, FWIW, Pangram scores my writing as entirely human. Claude's writing isn't easy to identify because it uses em-dashes and bulleted lists. Claude's distinctive style goes much deeper than that.

This reply was AI written

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#34
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s written by AI.

I am _very_ familiar with Claudish, and to some extent, the other AIs' writing styles. This article is human-written and features human writing quirks. The very first sentence > Back in 2022 and 2023 there were two big branches of machine learning happening at Meta. is unmistakably human. That's not how a LLM would phrase this sentence, and if it did, it would have put a comma after 2023.

You can just prompt an llm to make causal grammar mistakes

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#35
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[[citation needed]] I am a professional writer and have been for over 30 years. (I do not use any form of LLM ever.) This means I read a lot . This also means that I have 30+ years of experience of readers not understanding what I wrote, or not getting further than the title, or not getting the main message, or inverting it in their heads, or inserting their own message and then complaining when I diverge, and an end…

I don’t think TFA is written by AI. But AI written pieces do have a certain feeling. A sort of saccatto in the succession of ideas that does not feel natural. They emphasize certain points, and you as a reader, you just wonder why is that. There is the “This thing, not just that thing”. There are also the three successive propositions (mostly in one sentences) to accentuate an idea and “Negation. Strong positive idea…

It feels manipulative. The strong language always seems like it is trying to convince you it's right even when there is no need to, such as a factual presentation. Of course if you look at popular pre-AI blogs you can see strains of the same thing, so it's no surprise that llms blend together all of those "most persuasive" methods.

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#36
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think TFA is written by AI. But AI written pieces do have a certain feeling. A sort of saccatto in the succession of ideas that does not feel natural. They emphasize certain points, and you as a reader, you just wonder why is that. There is the “This thing, not just that thing”. There are also the three successive propositions (mostly in one sentences) to accentuate an idea and “Negation. Strong positive idea…

Just like em-dashes, some people have always done these though. Why are they penalized with immediate AI slop witch hunts? The LLMs didn't come up with these tics out of thin air.

I've realized that even when humans write that way, I also stop reading. Manipulative writing always shuts down my interest in reading it. At least when the LLM does it, it's a byproduct of training. When a human does it's intentional.

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#37
post #29

It's the bitter-lesson to feature-engineering lifecycle. When a technique or technology is new people are making massive gains by just applying it to some use case, or gathering more data for training, or giving it more resources. As time goes on those "bitter lesson" gains start to hit the shallow part of the logistic curve and companies have to start investing more and more effort into engineering for each small, i…

Well put, thanks.

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#38
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude's writing style is at least as distinctive as any human's personal style. It has a long list of favorite words, verbal tics and common structures. On top of that, LLM writing is often bad in a very particular way: it's weak on actual things to say, but with an overheated style. Some days, I spend over 4 hours a day reading walls of text written by Claude. If I couldn't recognize Claude's default "voice" by now…

Claude's default voice, yes. But I'd assume a lot of people have learned to prompt it to something other than its default style. IMO it is good practice to have a style guide to feed in with the prompt. > On top of that, LLM writing is often bad in a very particular way: it's weak on actual things to say, but with an overheated style. This point is interesting because it raises the question of what "LLM writing" actu…

> The easily detectable LLM writers are going to be the lazy ones.

To an extent, true. There are a lot of lazy ones though. And even for those who take steps, it sometimes leaves enough of a trace to at least raise the question.

Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#39
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s written by AI.

I am _very_ familiar with Claudish, and to some extent, the other AIs' writing styles. This article is human-written and features human writing quirks. The very first sentence > Back in 2022 and 2023 there were two big branches of machine learning happening at Meta. is unmistakably human. That's not how a LLM would phrase this sentence, and if it did, it would have put a comma after 2023.

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Re: LLMs Are Complicated Now

#40
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like em-dashes, some people have always done these though. Why are they penalized with immediate AI slop witch hunts? The LLMs didn't come up with these tics out of thin air.

I've realized that even when humans write that way, I also stop reading. Manipulative writing always shuts down my interest in reading it. At least when the LLM does it, it's a byproduct of training. When a human does it's intentional.

Yeah see that makes a lot more sense. If one doesn't like the writing style or content, just don't read it. The reflexive "this is AI slop!" complaints have themselves become a caricature. If something was written by AI but one liked the writing style and content, who cares? But regardless of the authorship if it's vapid and annoying, then that's different.
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