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Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

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Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#31

Post by keernan »

mcherm wrote: post #27
keernan wrote: post #11

There is no need for id. IMO granting children access to the internet is no different than handing a child a loaded gun with no safety. Both should be treated the same way. Make it illegal for parents or any adult to: - purchase an internet capable device for anyone under the age of 18 (or whatever age is deemed appropriate to allow unfettered access without any ID) - allow anyone under the age of 18 (or ##) to opera…

So apparently you believe that a 17-year-old should not be allowed to (a) order a pizza; (b) drive a car; (c) adjust the thermostat, unless they live in a sort of pre-internet Amish society which is probably based on the level of technology that was widely available when you were a child.

If the internet is so dangerous that it requires every adult to obtain a government ID to get online, then yes, a 10 year old (or 17 yo if that's the age you want to use) is going to have to wait just like he/she has to wait to drive a car or buy liquor or cigarettes or pot.

Don't blame me. Blame the people pushing for a government ID that YOU must have before you can order your pizza.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#33

Post by lmz »

Bender wrote: post #9
mentalgear wrote: post #3

> Pass laws requiring companies that use third party age or ID verification to take full legal culpability for that data. If any of the data is leaked they must pay each party $1 million dollars regardless of how or why the data was leaked. 300 identities leaked or sold? That will be 300 million dollars not counting criminal penalties. Should this lead to bankruptcy then it is working as intended as they are clearly…

Too much? I suppose the solution would be to not collect the data in the first place and instead use RTA headers and client checks for said header assuming legislators come to their senses and start caring about kids.

Of course for this to work the client has to check it and know the device's user is underage. Any devices or software that either do not check or lie about the user's age will be illegal. Since you can write software that does so too, unsigned software that does network access will be made impossible.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#34

Post by m12k »

I feel genuinely conflicted: On the one hand I get the "authoritarian overreach heebie-jeebies", that I think a lot of people on HN probably share. On the other hand I'd also really like the West to harden its election processes from election interference by its adversaries (e.g. Russia) - and shoring up dysinfo on e.g. Facebook by requiring users to prove their identity with a government ID is one of the only ways to truly effectively combat this at its source (fact-checking just can't keep up with a firehose of dysinformation). Ideally I'd want "real id requirements" to be limited " partake in public discourse" (mainly Facebook and Twitter). But the slippery slop argument just feels pretty strong here too - once a mechanism like this is in place, its use will only ever expand, and it's much easier for a new government to commit overreach if it's already there and just needs expanding. And of course all this "think of the children" nonsense needs to stop.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#35

Post by asdff »

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like.

Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the planet.

As for the FCC, I don't really care. I will set up nodes on top of abandoned buildings. I will set up nodes in front of the local FCC field office. I will set up nodes in the middle of the forest. I will set up nodes on buoys out at sea. They may capture me or worse, so be it. I will not be around forever anyhow.

I pray there are still actual hackers out there on hacker news who might consider this idea and help further the technical side. This is a little out of my wheelhouse. I just can't accept this inevitable incoming future where all our communications will be IDed and censored. That is the end game for them. We can't allow for that to happen. This might be the biggest battle yet, bigger than all the other wars where power used us like pawns against the pawns of some other power, because for once in the history of civilization, we'd be fighting for our own right and not some elite group's right. I hope I am not alone in this line of thinking.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#36

Post by BobbyTables2 »

AngryData wrote: post #23
nonethewiser wrote: post #5

Porn companies should be held liable for distributing porn to minors. Its already illegal. Denial about requiring basic KYC is causing all sorts of perverse solutions. Accept the requirement so we can have a sensible technical solution.

Oh no, children seeing naked people and sex! How horrible! Now lets bring them all to the family friendly farm where they can watch a horse with a monster dong screw his way through a herd of mares.

Travel not even needed.

Lovebugs are visible and land on their arm.

Try explaining WHY the bugs are connected…

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#37

Post by Vates »

AngryData wrote: post #23
nonethewiser wrote: post #5

Porn companies should be held liable for distributing porn to minors. Its already illegal. Denial about requiring basic KYC is causing all sorts of perverse solutions. Accept the requirement so we can have a sensible technical solution.

Oh no, children seeing naked people and sex! How horrible! Now lets bring them all to the family friendly farm where they can watch a horse with a monster dong screw his way through a herd of mares.

This is a really weird thing to comment

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#38

Post by raincole »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

The final defense is always to change the government (one way or another). When we need to resort to technical mean we have lost.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#39

Post by memoriesofsmell »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

Trusted IPSec tunnels to form your own trusted internet of peers/friends within the internet. It's all just 'a LAN' then. I dunno how well that scales, but it's a lot easier than trying to sort out radio shenanigans (which in my experience are actually regularly enforced by FCC/your local equivalents).

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#40

Post by petermcneeley »

nodrog3000 wrote: post #32

Simple solution, Use your router to block whatever you need to, control your kids devices, the internet stays free and open. What are we talking about? There are no laws that will turn out well.

You know what we are talking about. It was written in the book.
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