31–40 of 53 posts
I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.
>why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. That simply doesn't make sense. You could make that argument against every single programming language.
I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.
The way to get around the "everything" is an object thing is to just ignore it. Object Orientation is mostly a convenience at that level of programming and you can do almost everything without even bothering about it.
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Agree 100%. You don't have to install anything. It's on every machine with a modern web browser, even mobile devices. It's even got the "nastiness" factor down. :-) We're also starting to see things like Snap written in pure JavaScript/HTML5: http://snap.berkeley.edu/snapsource/snap.html
Not to forget the rapid evolution of the language, ECMAScript 6 will get ... 1. classes http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:classes 2. modules http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:modules and more ( http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:proposals ).
I get the feeling that because Javascript is in such high demand, a lot of "classicly trained" programmers have started taking it up and started b*tching about how things aren't they way they're used to.
That's probably the same group of people who on this board complain about Python's indentation syntax, etc.
I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.
1. If you think Python is a pain, I don't think there is any other language you can learn. I've learned lots of different languages, but Python was one of the easiest to pick up and get started--not so different from BASIC. 2. Unless things have changed since I last worked with python, your statement "Everything is an object" is not true. Actually this is one thing I like about Python over Ruby (In Ruby, everything a…
I'd rather take Lua as "The new Basic", since it has a syntax closer to Basic, and it's a simpler language.
Javascript is.
The problem with Javascript is that you basically can only use it to interact with websites (thus forcing people to also learn HTML and CSS along with it). There is also the problem of it being a language full of warts and implementation incompatibilities and missing lots of features you would want from a modern language.
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Maybe the modern equivalent of "boot straight in to a REPL." is starting a browser, everybody and his grandma knows how to do that, and if that is done, Javascript is closer than any other programming language. I can imagine a default, browser based Javascript REPL just being one mouseclick away. that can be done and probably will be done sooner or later.
> browser based Javascript REPL Cmd-Opt-J[0]. While easy to get to, it's not the same as being forced into a REPL every time you use your computer; you still have to know it's there, lessening the temptation to jump right in and break things. [0] or insert browser/platform appropriate shortcut for JS console/debugger here
My apple booted to the program on the disk you inserted.
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Not to forget the rapid evolution of the language, ECMAScript 6 will get ... 1. classes http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:classes 2. modules http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:modules and more ( http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:proposals ).
Javascript doesn't even need classes as a prototype-based ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype-based_programming ) language. I get the feeling that because Javascript is in such high demand, a lot of "classicly trained" programmers have started taking it up and started b*tching about how things aren't they way they're used to. That's probably the same group of people who on this board complain about Python's inde…
These days, it seems that when I ask great 20-something-year-old programmers (or whatever term we use) at what age they started to program computers, I the answer is usually 10+. I wonder if it will be the same in 20 years? How young will it go?
I'd rather take Lua as "The new Basic", since it has a syntax closer to Basic, and it's a simpler language.
I don't fully understand why Lua hasn't taken over the world. Seems that a large part of it is a sort of weak ecosystem (maybe larger than it seems, but too spread out), and maybe the table thing weirds people out. People want to learn something they can use in "real life" as soon as possible, at least in my experience. But if Lua had taken over that wouldn't be a problem. Grrr.