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Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

maurycyz.com

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

xray, photomultiplier and laser tubes are still SOTA. PM tubes in particular have a huge number of glass feed through for the intermediate plate voltages.

Musical instrument amplifiers still use them as well, at least some of them.

Those are Not where the tubes are SOTA.

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#32
post #3

Hmmmm. Wonder if you could just induct through the glass with coils on each side? Seems perfect for high voltage applications?

If you want a gas discharge tube and not vacuum, you can even drop the coil on the inside: https://hackaday.io/project/194683-plasma-toroid-sky-guided-... But most hollow-state devices run on either DC or pulses, so coupled inductors wouldn't work.

Wouldn't work ... without additional electronic components.

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a gas discharge tube and not vacuum, you can even drop the coil on the inside: https://hackaday.io/project/194683-plasma-toroid-sky-guided-... But most hollow-state devices run on either DC or pulses, so coupled inductors wouldn't work.

Wouldn't work ... without additional electronic components.

Than you can skip the hollow state part altogether. And any plastic-package parts would screw your vacuum up badly - if it survives sealing and bakeout that is.

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#34

If we're talking homemade vacuum tubes... I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just use metal endplates with feedthroughs for electrical (like spark-plugs) and with v-grooves for o-rings or some other gasket material. this kind of construction can handle vacuum easily, I think?

It will not hold a vacuum. Gas can diffuse through rubber and rubber itself will out-gas in very low vacuums. Metal and glass seals are the only truly air tight sealing methods. Even then, remaining gas is trapped in tubes and a getter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter is activated at factory to trap this remaining gas on the tube wall in a thin layer of metal. That is why many tubes have a dark silver coating at the top or a band, that's the evaporated getter metal.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_for_use_in_vacuum

Also, don't use V grooves for O-rings. Read the Parker o-ring handbook for proper seal design: https://test.parker.com/content/dam/Parker-com/Literature/O-...

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#35
post #20

Would you be able to reseal the cracked glass and regenerate the vacuum through the other end? More glass, epoxy, or similar?

Plastic generally isn't an air tight seal. The leaks may be slow, but generally we hope vacuum tubes last for years.

> generally we hope vacuum tubes last for years

If I may offer an anecdote, the output stage in my guitar amplifier is powered by a GEC tube that is now 55 years old. It sounds great. When I found the tube, it had been rolling around for a couple of decades at the bottom of a wooden box.

This could simply be survivorship bias, but it does appear that back in the day, they knew how to build these things to last.

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vacuum tubes are still made today, so I'm sure the knowledge is not lost. I'm curious about the answer as well.

I was under the impression that they were only made in eastern Europe at this point, former bloc nations. Even then, the demand must be microscopic at this point.

They are also made in China. There is also one American company that makes a single audio tube, the 300b. They bought the Western Electric tooling, materials, and trade dress from whoever had bought it from AT&T.

I’m not sure where non audio vacuum tubes are made. I’m sure there’s a variety of companies around the world making X-ray, transmitter, laser, etc. tubes.

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned in TFA, the most important factor for successfully joining a metal and a glass is to match their thermal expansion coefficients. Most pure metals have a much greater thermal expansion than any glass, which will cause cracks. In the nineteenth century, the first successful joinings of metal with glass were done using platinum, but that is obviously too expensive for normal applications. Eventually a speci…

Ordinary incandescent bulbs must have similar sealing requirements, but they probably mostly rely on using a thin conductor that doesn't contract much when it cools. Also IIRC modern incandescent bulbs do not use a high vacuum but contain a low pressure inert gas so leakage would be slower if it occurs at all.

Incandescent bulbs are 0.8 atm (equivalent to 15,000 ft altitude) when off, and when they're on, they're actually slightly pressurized.

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#39

If we're talking homemade vacuum tubes... I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just use metal endplates with feedthroughs for electrical (like spark-plugs) and with v-grooves for o-rings or some other gasket material. this kind of construction can handle vacuum easily, I think?

As the other replier mentioned, that won't work.

What would work is to mill a knife edge into both the end plate and the can and use off-the-shelf copper Conflat ("CF") gaskets, which are available in a large number of standard sizes.

You'd have to work out a way to hold a vacuum in the can while you're tightening the flange though

Re: Making glass-to-metal seals for home­made vacuum tubes

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vacuum tubes are still made today, so I'm sure the knowledge is not lost. I'm curious about the answer as well.

I was under the impression that they were only made in eastern Europe at this point, former bloc nations. Even then, the demand must be microscopic at this point.

A lot of the demand is from guitar amps, while you can just as well simulate the behaviour of a valve amp these days there's still plenty of demand for the real deal. As long as the likes of Fender, Marshall and so on want to supply valve amps to the mass market there'll probably be factories producing ECC83s, EL34s and the other common audio valves. In a lot of ways the combination of electric guitar + valve amp basically is the instrument in some styles.

There's also a niche HiFi market, my daily driver audio amp is a 1960s Leak EL84 amp. It's a cool bit of living history and it's very non-fatiguing to listen to for long periods.

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