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Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

theguardian.com

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Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#31

Post by orbital-decay »

ricardobeat wrote: post #16
orbital-decay wrote: post #9

>Amsterdam and Enschede are banning wide-tyre fat bikes from some central locations or parks What's the reason? Ordinary fatbikes aren't fast, and e-bikes are fast in any case.

> Ordinary fatbikes aren't fast Most fatbikes have a much more powerful motor than a regular e-bike, and can be used without pedaling at all. They are listed as 250W, but it's actually a software-limited 750W motor. Local vendors provide unlock instructions along with the bike. Instead of the 25km/h legal limit, they can go 40-50km/h: https://v8fatbike.com/how-to-unlock-ouxi-v8-speed-limit/ It's just a motorcycle in…

I mean ordinary as non-electric. I know what an electric fatbike can do of course. The article makes it ambiguous as it's talking about the common limit for all cyclists.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#32

Post by swarnie »

rXwubXUGAm wrote: post #30

Not necessarily against the idea but 20kph is very slow. It would be super easy to accidentally go over the limit unless you have a cycling computer attached to the bike and constantly monitor your speed.

The exact same argument can be made for cars.

Doesn't stop the government wasting half my Saturday and stealing £100 every couple of years.

We should congratulate cyclist on becoming fully fledged (oppressed) road users.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#33

Post by cuvert »

seper8 wrote: post #28

They should just limit electric bikes to 15km/h. If you want to go faster, pedal yourself. This solves two problems: - Cool kids aren't cool anymore, biking on their now slow ass fatbikes - Old people who's mental faculties can't keep up with 25km/h anymore dont end up in so many traffic accidents.

[dead]

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#34

Post by cinntaile »

seper8 wrote: post #28

They should just limit electric bikes to 15km/h. If you want to go faster, pedal yourself. This solves two problems: - Cool kids aren't cool anymore, biking on their now slow ass fatbikes - Old people who's mental faculties can't keep up with 25km/h anymore dont end up in so many traffic accidents.

Your suggestion would completely kill e-bikes, I don't think that is a good idea. Above a certain speed limit they should need to ride on the regular road though. On a regular e-bike you don't get up to 25km/h without putting in the effort. If their mental capacities are that far gone, they won't be able to go that fast anyway. They'll top out at 20km/h or something.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#35

Post by ErroneousBosh »

jmorenoamor wrote: post #10

The boundary between a bicycle and a motorbike has completely dissapeared. That boundary needs to be recovered, and then rules will make sense again, until then, any effort is futile.

> The boundary between a bicycle and a motorbike has completely dissapeared.

Not really. The first motorbikes were bicycles with engines attached. Many current electric motorcycles are bicycles with electric motors attached.

If it has a throttle and does not require pedal assist, it is a motorcycle.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#36

Post by expedition32 »

In most countries people use bicycles as some form of leisure travel but Dutch cycling is a need for speed!

Tourist tip if you are ever in Amsterdam: check the ferry next to the train station during rush hour. It is the equivalent of Shibuya crossing only for cyclists. Pure madness but somehow it all works like clockwork.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#37

Post by graemep »

pvtmert wrote: post #18

They need a distinction between pedal assist and fully electric (motor) bike. I live in Luxembourg and the infrastructure is not as good as the Netherlands. Majority of offenders (in my experience) are delivery guys and teenagers. Where teenagers simply don't care & do reckless things like passing on a big intersection at full speed on a red light, delivery guys do the same things for extra tips. Some of the fat-tire…

Teenagers do dangerous things on normal bicycles too. The nearest I have ever come to an accident with a bicycle while driving (in the UK) was a teenager shooting out at high speed across the road from behind a parked van. Having cyclists sharing space with pedestrians is made worse by ebikes (which are effectively mopeds or motorbikes) but is a real problem with pedal bikes too in some places.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#38

Post by david-gpu »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #35
jmorenoamor wrote: post #10

The boundary between a bicycle and a motorbike has completely dissapeared. That boundary needs to be recovered, and then rules will make sense again, until then, any effort is futile.

> The boundary between a bicycle and a motorbike has completely dissapeared. Not really. The first motorbikes were bicycles with engines attached. Many current electric motorcycles are bicycles with electric motors attached. If it has a throttle and does not require pedal assist, it is a motorcycle.

A pedal-assist e-bike with a 500 Watt motor and an easily bypassed speed governor looks like a bicycle, it is pedaled like a bicycle, and yet it is unsuitable for a bicycle lane or a path shared with pedestrians.

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#39

Post by graemep »

globular-toast wrote: post #5
huhkerrf wrote: post #2

> “This is all about cyclists on motorised bicycles, so I should think you would do something about motorised cyclists. Make a rule for them and not for all cyclists.” There's a certain sub strain of cyclists that want absolutely no rules for them. In a just world, cyclists would have more freedom than cars, but pedestrians would have most of all. But walking through European cities with large cycling cultures can be…

I don't like to think of it in terms of freedom. Everyone has the same freedom to use public highways. The difference is responsibility. If you decide to use a bicycle you have a bit more responsibility than if you walk because they can go faster. If you decide to use a motor vehicle then it should come with a huge amount of extra responsibility. Ultimately you have the added responsibility of ensuring the safety and…

The problem is that there are effective mechanisms for punishing irresponsible drivers (and motor cyclists), but none (at least here in the UK) for punishing irresponsible cyclists.

The other problem is that cyclists often share space with pedestrians. I see cyclists on the pavement all the time (mostly illegally - and without consequences), I never see a car driving on the pavement (some park on the pavement, which is annoying).

Re: Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

#40

Post by david-gpu »

swarnie wrote: post #32
rXwubXUGAm wrote: post #30

Not necessarily against the idea but 20kph is very slow. It would be super easy to accidentally go over the limit unless you have a cycling computer attached to the bike and constantly monitor your speed.

The exact same argument can be made for cars. Doesn't stop the government wasting half my Saturday and stealing £100 every couple of years. We should congratulate cyclist on becoming fully fledged (oppressed) road users.

Drivers kill and severely injure people at rates higher than all other violent crime combined.

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240086517?hl=en-...

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