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Cooling in Space

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Re: Cooling in Space

#31

Post by curiousObject »

athrowaway3z wrote: post #20
XorNot wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is that the power situation in LEO is still actually terrible! Your solar is a little more performant, but you're plunged into hard shade every 45 minutes.

I think calling solar a little more performant is underselling it. Once you have LEO getting to a better orbit costs relatively little. Getting from LEO to the moon is only like 30% more than getting from ground to LEO.

True, but lifting the fuel to power that “small” orbital boost is unintuitively expensive

(Refer to the tyranny of the “Rocket Equation”)

Re: Cooling in Space

#32

Post by afavour »

jdw64 wrote: post #22
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the feeling that the only reason that might actually be done is to escape from any kind of jurisdiction. In space no one can hear you compute.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be better to just put it in the desert? Realistically, if noise from calculations is the problem, placing it in a remote area would be more economical.

The desert is still under someone’s jurisdiction. Perhaps the best on-planet comparison is creating a man made island in the middle of the ocean.

Re: Cooling in Space

#33

Post by lpapez »

jvanderbot wrote: post #29
kryptiskt wrote: post #10

Allow me to propose a modest alternative to space data centers, namely mountaintop data centers. This would consist of a container full of servers and GPUs and what else goes into a data center, a wind turbine for power and a communication module (say laser or microwave) for communicating with a base station with a fiber connection. This would be lifted on top of a mountain by a helicopter and bolted in place. Coolin…

What would be accomplished by doing this vs placing them basically anywhere else on earth?

It is a comment on the absurdity of orbital data centers. Mountaintop data centers sound absurd, but are more feasible and efficient than orbital ones in nearly every aspect.

Re: Cooling in Space

#34

Post by dwroberts »

echoangle wrote: post #6

I still don’t see what the advantage is. Of course it’s physically possible to build a datacenter in space, but I can’t imagine land prices being that high that the same data center on earth wouldn’t be cheaper. Even just due to launch costs and the more sophisticated equipment needed for space.

One advantage that does come to mind in light of the Iran war (and the loss of an AWS DC) is difficulty in attacking it, even when it’s directly above foreign territory. I wonder if one of the intended customers will be gov/military? Conjoined spy satellite/DC for some function maybe?

Re: Cooling in Space

#35

Post by amelius »

kryptiskt wrote: post #10

Allow me to propose a modest alternative to space data centers, namely mountaintop data centers. This would consist of a container full of servers and GPUs and what else goes into a data center, a wind turbine for power and a communication module (say laser or microwave) for communicating with a base station with a fiber connection. This would be lifted on top of a mountain by a helicopter and bolted in place. Coolin…

A better idea is to put them on Mars, so people actually think before they send a stupid question.

Re: Cooling in Space

#36

Post by gnfargbl »

jvanderbot wrote: post #29
kryptiskt wrote: post #10

Allow me to propose a modest alternative to space data centers, namely mountaintop data centers. This would consist of a container full of servers and GPUs and what else goes into a data center, a wind turbine for power and a communication module (say laser or microwave) for communicating with a base station with a fiber connection. This would be lifted on top of a mountain by a helicopter and bolted in place. Coolin…

What would be accomplished by doing this vs placing them basically anywhere else on earth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

Re: Cooling in Space

#37

Post by _puk »

jdw64 wrote: post #22
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the feeling that the only reason that might actually be done is to escape from any kind of jurisdiction. In space no one can hear you compute.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be better to just put it in the desert? Realistically, if noise from calculations is the problem, placing it in a remote area would be more economical.

It's a play on "in space no-one can hear you scream", not a literal "compute is so noisy we need to go to space"

The jurisdiction issue is the bigger one. Deserts don't solve this; International waters, possibly do, but then you've got other issues.

Re: Cooling in Space

#38

Post by senectus1 »

tristanj wrote: post #3

Space data centers are physically possible but don't make financial sense. The total cost of an orbital datacenter over five years is at least 2–3x that of a terrestrial one. But those economics don't matter to SpaceX, because the main purpose of its orbital data centers is to create a use case for Starship. Starship has to fly frequently to iron out the kinks, encounter and fix rare (1/1000) failure situations, and…

it sort of makes sense, if the need for that compute is in space and not terrestrial.

In my mind its the same sort of thing as mining in space. it makes no sense to mine ores in space for delivery to earth (unless its something exotic that you cant get on earth). Mining in space is best used for manufacturing in space (and furthering building in space)... then the cost benefit ratio suddenly flips hard in the "worth it" direction.

Re: Cooling in Space

#39

Post by titanomachy »

afavour wrote: post #32
jdw64 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be better to just put it in the desert? Realistically, if noise from calculations is the problem, placing it in a remote area would be more economical.

The desert is still under someone’s jurisdiction. Perhaps the best on-planet comparison is creating a man made island in the middle of the ocean.

This also seems more sensible than space, although I guess if you’re in international waters then no military will protect you and someone could eventually destroy it. Way more organizations have the ability to blow up a boat is compared to a space station.

Re: Cooling in Space

#40

Post by afavour »

It’s an interesting era to be alive in, where the rich and powerful (Trump, Musk) just assert things evidence free and then a whole community rolls in to come up with a post-facto rationalisation.

Musk hasn’t thought about any of this. He just says stuff. He agreed with a statement that “space cooling is free”[1], as a sign of how deeply considered it all is.

[1] https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1998483552669937682?lang=...

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