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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#31
post #2

Atlanticist polls are probably more interesting (if there even is such a thing) when considering which questions they didn't even ask, rather than the questions they asked confirming all the establishment positions anyway.

Is there an establishment in the room with us right now?

Let me know, because I want to make sure that I'm aligned with this mystical Western Atlantacist Anglo-Saxon (insert Russian propaganda snarl-word du jour) hive mind.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#32

Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country. Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about th…

> It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country. Look at the Denmark graph (adversarial going up). I do not think in that case it is about "the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks" but about the US itself doing that.

One could argue B implies A :p

You can hardly expect the guy attacking you to have your back.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.

France has an independent nuclear deterrent. I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 and (b) discourage nuclear proliferation by anyone, and now because the Americans have thrown security out the window in exchange for freedom to bully, we have to reverse course on both of those?

> I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3

That policy lasted less than a single decade. Germany was encouraged to re-arm as soon as 1950 inofficially and 1955 officially.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#34
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.

France and UK have a nuclear arsenal. France specifically has said they are willing to extend their policy to cover other EU countries. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o

The long term viability of the UK nukes does rather depend on support from the US though - they use our own fissile material, but the warhead designs are believed to largely be based on the US W76 and the actual Trident missiles come from a pool controlled by the US.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again. As if we haven't seen that film before. Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.

I don't understand why this is being downvoted. It's not unreasonable to assume that increased militarization, coupled with increased nationalistic sentiment, could lead to inner-european conflicts escalating into wars. Sure, right now Russia is the enemy, but who knows what'll happen in ten years. And the military machinery is not just going to be scaled down immediately. If he's being downvoted for his "selling wea…

Follow the Yugoslavia model and ship soldiers from each country to live and work with each other in their first years in military service.

Then again… Yugoslavia maybe not the best example here…

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#36
post #33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has an independent nuclear deterrent. I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 and (b) discourage nuclear proliferation by anyone, and now because the Americans have thrown security out the window in exchange for freedom to bully, we have to reverse course on both of those?

> I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 That policy lasted less than a single decade. Germany was encouraged to re-arm as soon as 1950 inofficially and 1955 officially.

And I think even before 1950 there was a feeling, particularly in the US, that it was good to have the Germans on-side in a military conflict due to their recent experience fighting the Soviets.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#37
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again. As if we haven't seen that film before. Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.

I don't understand why this is being downvoted. It's not unreasonable to assume that increased militarization, coupled with increased nationalistic sentiment, could lead to inner-european conflicts escalating into wars. Sure, right now Russia is the enemy, but who knows what'll happen in ten years. And the military machinery is not just going to be scaled down immediately. If he's being downvoted for his "selling wea…

> I don't understand why this is being downvoted.

Wars and military matters are literally life and death. I try not to speculate about downvotes, but here I expect there are people who are primed to get quite emotional when someone tells them they shouldn't start arming up.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#38
> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “rival” or “adversary”.

Yes, because Russia's propaganda, espionage and corruption arm has been focusing on the far-right parties for the past two decades, breaking from their previous focus on the far left.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#40
post #2

Atlanticist polls are probably more interesting (if there even is such a thing) when considering which questions they didn't even ask, rather than the questions they asked confirming all the establishment positions anyway.

Is there an establishment in the room with us right now? Let me know, because I want to make sure that I'm aligned with this mystical Western Atlantacist Anglo-Saxon (insert Russian propaganda snarl-word du jour) hive mind.

To understand what I'm talking about listen to the WEF speech by Canadian PM Mark Carney from a few months ago,

https://youtu.be/izDAOvHz5Wc

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