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Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

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Re: Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

#31
post #29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terminal homing phase sub-torpedo drone swarm use case for this ? ;-)

As funny as your comment sounds, I wouldn't rule out the Ukrainians actually doing it. At least for sea+air and air+air, sub-drones are already a reality.

Yeah, there is at least one case where they (critically ?) damaged a Kilo class submarine using an underwater drone last year:

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/why_damaged_russian_kilo_clas...

Re: Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

#33
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is it doesn't really matter and radio isn't much benefit: you get much higher bandwidth, better reliability, immunity to ECM, and fiber-optic wires in Ukraine are over 50km long. The exact application for this is autonomous underwater vehicles where what you would like to do is communicate quickly and without a tether in arbitrary scenarios - i.e. think a bunch of autonomous vehicles which might need to rel…

fair enough but afaik torpedoes aren't tethered by a fiber optic cable like drones. it's a much thicker cable that possibly contains a fiber optic cable.

Right but they're heavier with far fewer weight concerns then an aircraft. Torpedos are large, heavy and expensive.

The point is a very thin wire had a surprisingly long range - versus this system which has a very low bitrate much past 1km.

For an active weapons system it's just not a great choice when you already have the wires and they work.

But for sensors or vehicle meshing, where you can't lay wires in advance? Potentially huge.

Re: Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most challenging thing about submarine communications is that EM waves don't propagate through water. To communicate from the surface to a submarine, we use radio waves on the order of 100Hz, with incredibly large antennas running at very high power. Submarines cannot communicate back without sending a more conventional antenna up to the surface. Acoustics is the entire game under water. You can only detec…

And a lot faster than on land. 5 times if I recollect correctly.

About right, but more importantly it's highly dependent on factors like pressure, temperature and salinity, all of which change in relevant ways in the ocean depths.

People imagine sonar like it's radar, where you get clean bearings and distance readings, but it's so much noisier and hard to decipher.

And yet it really does travel long distances which is both good and bad if you're a submariner.

Re: Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

#35
post #34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a lot faster than on land. 5 times if I recollect correctly.

About right, but more importantly it's highly dependent on factors like pressure, temperature and salinity, all of which change in relevant ways in the ocean depths. People imagine sonar like it's radar, where you get clean bearings and distance readings, but it's so much noisier and hard to decipher. And yet it really does travel long distances which is both good and bad if you're a submariner.

And this has implications for hearing damage to cetaceans, yes ?

Re: Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

#36
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About right, but more importantly it's highly dependent on factors like pressure, temperature and salinity, all of which change in relevant ways in the ocean depths. People imagine sonar like it's radar, where you get clean bearings and distance readings, but it's so much noisier and hard to decipher. And yet it really does travel long distances which is both good and bad if you're a submariner.

And this has implications for hearing damage to cetaceans, yes ?

Salinity, temperature and pressure aren't normally large factors for cetaceans, no.

If you're referring to active sonar, that's an issue for anything with ears under the water. But animals themselves also can make loud noises (e.g. the sperm whale can reach 230+ dB), as can surface ships with their own active sonar kits.

Re: Magnetoelectric antennas could transform how underwater robots talk

#37
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this has implications for hearing damage to cetaceans, yes ?

Salinity, temperature and pressure aren't normally large factors for cetaceans, no. If you're referring to active sonar, that's an issue for anything with ears under the water. But animals themselves also can make loud noises (e.g. the sperm whale can reach 230+ dB), as can surface ships with their own active sonar kits.

AIUI the problem has been the USN making absolutely huge noises and the relevance being that the noises carry very long distances, affecting wide areas of habitat.
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