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Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

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Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#31
post #22
post #6

Europe gets romanticized way too much. Healthcare often means months of waiting and very hit-or-miss doctors. Bureaucracy is worse, salaries are lower, and there are plenty of stupid laws and corruption too. It is probably better if you value slower life, more vacation, and working less. But it is not some obvious upgrade over the U.S. Just a different set of problems. (I'm hungarian)

To add some nuances, as someone living in Germany, it’s correct you might have to wait months for a medical appointment, but not for emergencies. Psychiatrists, psychotherapists are generally overbooked and you likely have to wait 3-6 months (sometimes more), which isn’t great if you are in a bad place. However if we are talking about breaking something, you can get everything happening quickly and efficiently. Perso…

What German health care providers don’t tell you is that you have the legal right to get faster psychological assistance, and they have to cover the costs of a private therapist if you can show that there is no availability in your area. They try to make the process as ugly as possible, and I understand that typically you will not have the capacity to deal with that in times of need, but with some more awareness around this topic maybe you can find a friend or a social worker to assist you with that. See eg https://www.kassenwatch.de/ In all major cities, there are dozens of nonprofits that quickly will help you for free; it’s more that those in need most times don’t feel comfortable asking for that kind of help.

Personally, my life improved considerably when I decided I’ve had enough of it, and that spending around 100€/h on my mental health, plus attending group therapy which you can find for as low as 20€ for a full weekend (for example IoPT), was the best quality decision of my life. I understand not all of society is in a position to spend that kind of money, but think and be honest on your own spending and valuation. I know people that easily spend that amount on drugs or booze or hobby activities that don’t really address their mental health issues. If I hear you complaining about not finding a therapist but I see you driving a 50k€ car, or spending 2k€ on “vacation”, that’s on you.

Yes, public health insurance could be better than it is, but it’s not without alternative. The private therapists I work with have zero waiting time, and anyone can get an appointment within a week or two with them. You can spend a long time complaining and waiting, or you can invest in yourself.

It can feel life threatening to go to a therapist. And I get how people are not ready to admit to others that they’re fucking scared, and ashamed. But they should at least admit to themselves that that is the real reason, not the waiting times. The people I know that actually finally found the courage to take the step suddenly discovered that for some reason they actually didn’t have to wait very long. The federal 116117 assistance line used to be pretty bad but it has improved considerably in the past decade. Same for the local mental health crisis lines (“Krisendienst”).

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#32

Maybe I'm becoming (or already cynical), but I'm increasingly tired of the genre of posts/reels/TikToks where someone moves to Vietnam, Portugal, Thailand, Mexico, etc. and comes back with profound observations about how "people there really know how to live" and how life is simply better there. A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US asse…

> A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US assets, US equity compensation, or US retirement savings.

What’s the issue with that? You obviously have lower income in the rest of the world, the US is literally the wealthiest country. If you can benefit from US income and live in places that suits you better it’s clearly a pretty good situation.

If you instead get a local wage you will still be in a good position, people leaving the US are generally with college education and high income. Maybe less wealthy but that’s ok, you don’t have to literally have the highest income in the world to be good.

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#33
I left over a decade ago, but I actually considered coming back around 2024, so I put some research into it. The result was grim.

- I'm now married to a non-American who is not white. We're not confident in the immigration process, to say the least

- Both of us are self-employed; the quote for decent (not good, I mean aggressively mediocre) insurance was very high

- Housing costs in any city we wanted to live in were very high; YMML on this obviously, but it covers a lot of cities

- Any social ill, irritation, etc that was annoying me around 2010 is unsolved with no signs of progress

- Extreme political polarization (actually a both sides thing)

- The rise of aggressive Christian nationalism (very much a one side thing)

- A horrifying pace of growth in political corruption

Everywhere has its bad points and none of these are necessarily worse than a randomly chosen second country. I think the final deciding factor is just vibes; I feel like America is declining, the culture I was born into is warping, and I don't particularly want to watch it happen from the inside, now that I'm already on the outside.

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add some nuances, as someone living in Germany, it’s correct you might have to wait months for a medical appointment, but not for emergencies. Psychiatrists, psychotherapists are generally overbooked and you likely have to wait 3-6 months (sometimes more), which isn’t great if you are in a bad place. However if we are talking about breaking something, you can get everything happening quickly and efficiently. Perso…

What German health care providers don’t tell you is that you have the legal right to get faster psychological assistance, and they have to cover the costs of a private therapist if you can show that there is no availability in your area. They try to make the process as ugly as possible, and I understand that typically you will not have the capacity to deal with that in times of need, but with some more awareness arou…

[dead]

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#36

Maybe I'm becoming (or already cynical), but I'm increasingly tired of the genre of posts/reels/TikToks where someone moves to Vietnam, Portugal, Thailand, Mexico, etc. and comes back with profound observations about how "people there really know how to live" and how life is simply better there. A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US asse…

US equity assets are generally available to most. Where I earned my savings is also irrelevant.

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#37
That is a problem for the counties they flock too.

Portuguese might not mind tourists that spend money in the country, but I know they do not like rich foreigners living there, driving up prices for housing and everything else.

People should consider migrating to other countries than Italy, Spain and Portugal:

Poland, Hungary and Romania are great places to live.

South Germany and Austria are also great and a bit easier to get by when only using English or consider Croatia if you are up for a bit more adventure.

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#38
post #32

Maybe I'm becoming (or already cynical), but I'm increasingly tired of the genre of posts/reels/TikToks where someone moves to Vietnam, Portugal, Thailand, Mexico, etc. and comes back with profound observations about how "people there really know how to live" and how life is simply better there. A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US asse…

> A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US assets, US equity compensation, or US retirement savings. What’s the issue with that? You obviously have lower income in the rest of the world, the US is literally the wealthiest country. If you can benefit from US income and live in places that suits you better it’s clearly a pretty good situation…

I believe GP’s point was that folks conflate being in the upper wealth class of a region with that region being inherently better for the locals.

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#39
Fantastic article.

I laughed at the couple who listed their reasons for leaving: healthcare costs, university costs, housing costs, school shootings threatening their kids, having to work so much they never saw their kids, having to own multiple cars, etc etc and then they say "But we aren't rejecting the American system" after listing all the parts of the american system they rejected.

Re: Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

regardless if you hate hearing them promoting their experiences or not, it's still true. People want to have fun and live happy not worry about school shooting, healthcare costs, living standards. I watched a video of a teacher that moved from Canada to China. He explained how much him and his family love it there, after 14 years he moved again to Singapore and loves it there just a little better than China. it is NO…

I loved china but eventually had to come back due to mostly air quality and some career issues. I’m back in my favorite American city at least, but having spent 11 years out (2 in Switzerland and 9 in china), I feel anxious (and I came back just in time for Trump 1, ugh).

Air quality in china has massively improved over last couple of years... Oc not as fast in all cities but might want to update your priors :)) (if that trump 1 is not a typo 8 years is a huge difference)
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