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Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

blog.davidedmundson.co.uk

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Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#31

Post by moritzruth »

laszlokorte wrote: post #15
senfiaj wrote: post #8

What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't stay on top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications. Not saying that X11…

I know nothing about the detailed technical differences between X11 and Wayland but with Hyprland for me the PIP is working as expected so I assume its not just a Wayland issue but specific to the window manager you are using? Maybe somebody else can explain?

I think in Hyprland it just works because floating windows stay on top by definition.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#32

Post by MBCook »

jebenesty wrote: post #25
MBCook wrote: post #16

> Moving forward with a single code path going through Wayland is going to allow us to bring new performance improvements, memory optimisations [sic], and brand new exciting features throughout Plasma. I wish they would have listed what some of those features might be.

Did you really just [sic] a British guy using British spelling?

Is that a British spelling? Oops.

Honestly my computer gave it a red underline so I decided to do that. I didn’t think about it harder than that.

If I recognized it like “colour” I wouldn’t have.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#33

Post by vkazanov »

shevy-java wrote: post #7

Good old David - he loves systemd. No wonder he does not like X11. Oldschool KDE devs were better. Today's generation of David or Nate, are just killing KDE off. But no worries, on their blog they'll continue how everything is great. It is so great that they need a donation-widget to keep on pestering people to donate. So now you can pay for them ruining the legacy here.

I dont know when where these "good old days" but in 2000s KDE was superunstable. It seemed to have all the cool UI tweaks but 30% of them barely worked.

Modern KDE is nothing like that, and i cannot see how this is a bad thing.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#35

Post by zubspace »

exe34 wrote: post #20
skeledrew wrote: post #13

I've been using Kubuntu for the past 12 years without any X-related issue, and have and am actively working on stuff that requires it. I guess it's time to switch to another DE.

try xmonad and dmenu. You don't need a desktop environment!

Interesting. But the only thing I would miss, is something like a settings menu. Or do you really expect me to fiddle around in config files to configure basic stuff like wifi? Or am I just stupid? Oh wait, I could use claude for that....

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#36

Post by csr86 »

senfiaj wrote: post #8

What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't stay on top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications. Not saying that X11…

I fixed this like this:

1. Right click PIP window 2. More Actions -> Configure special window settings 3. Add property -> Layer Force Popup

After this it spawned always in middle, I also added property Position Remember, so it spawns where it was previously. I have no idea if this is the best way to fix but worked for me.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#37

Post by ndiddy »

senfiaj wrote: post #8

What's sad is that after many years Wayland still lacks several things/features that X11 has/allows. Some of them are intentionally not implemented because of security paranoia. For example, Chrome "picture in picture" window doesn't stay on top when I click somewhere else since Wayland doesn't allow windows to stay on top. If I had a lot of time I could list how Wayland breaks many applications. Not saying that X11…

If you use KDE, you can work around this because of the powerful feature set the window manager has for setting custom window behavior.

1. Right click the PIP window and then click "More Actions-> Special Window Settings".

2. On the window that pops up, click "Add Property", and add "Window title". Change the drop-down from "Unimportant" to "Exact match" (this works on Firefox because the window title is always "Picture-in-Picture", you might have to do something slightly different on Chrome if it does something different).

3. Click "Add Property" again, add "Keep above other windows", change the drop-down to "Force", and change the radio button to "Yes".

4. From now on, all PIP windows will show up on top of other windows.

It would definitely be nicer if there was some sort of "always on top" permission that applications could request, but it's not too bad.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#38

Post by tosti »

mug1 wrote: post #10

I do like how the wayland usage statistic are based on wayland apps crashing more than x11 apps

Linux users are more likely not to opt-in and actively opt-out of spyware, telemetry, or whatever you want to call it.

The ones that don't are more likely those who leave things on defaults, are involved with the project or a distro, or similar. No, I don't have anything that backs this up. The statistics they're using can never be accurate, by virtue of being free software that ships on privacy concious distros to privacy cincious people. There was a study that backs up this claim, but I'm not google.

OTOH, xfce is doing fine.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#39

Post by superkuh »

This is a huge blow to accessibility on linux since KDE is such a large marketshare. There is no support for accessibility for the visually (or otherwise) disabled in KDE Plasma's wayland extensions (and none in core wayland at all). It's frankly shocking to me that they would go ahead with this. Even if one doesn't care about the lives of the disabled KDE is now ruled out of workplaces and institutions in the USA because of the Americans with Disabilities Act. The only wayland compositor that supports accessibility it's GNOME's mutter and that's with it's own newly rolled set of protocols that only GNOME's userspace applications support.

I'd love to be proven wrong about KDE's accessibility support. Hopefully they'll adopt GNOME's acccessibility extensions for wayland but that seems less likely than making their own that work with their compositor's design.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#40

Post by bluGill »

skeledrew wrote: post #13

I've been using Kubuntu for the past 12 years without any X-related issue, and have and am actively working on stuff that requires it. I guess it's time to switch to another DE.

Most people are not you. A small minority do things that really need X. However there is good reason to say that the things that really need X are things you shouldn't do anyway.

Meanwhile there is a slightly larger minority that need things that cannot be done in X.

For the vast majority of people they cannot tell the difference, either works just fine. If there are issues they are tiny things they don't notice until somebody points it out - and then they forget in a few days.

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