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Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

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Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#31
post #29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never heard of an ID card being revoked. Reasons for refusing to renew it are also very few in my country - like not having a place to live (owned or rented).

So homeless might be refused ID? They're no longer a person?

What otherwise will you do with people priced out of the real estate market and unable to compile valid elaborate application documents to rent something? /s

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#32
post #21

The article is a little one sided, as it doesn't touch upon MinID which is a government ID service, and Idporten which is an authentication service that allows use of different EIDs, like MinID and BankID. MinID is only considered "secure" while BankID is considered "highly secure"; as the linked pdf report (on Norwegian) states - in Norway, due to the popularity/market dominance of BankID - a lot of the logins are "…

To be fair a part of the problem here is that BankID is so common it has become the "Jacuzzi of EID" or the "Google of EID" or whatever your poison is. So all EID-related discussion in public is now "Why aren't we just adding BankID".

Sure, some policymaker will probably interpret this as "introduce EID" but it does color public debate.

I think it's a shame MinID doesn't have the same level of security as BankID, we are really missing out on a great opportunity. But something tells me the powers that are in Norway's socialite community doesn't want it. In Norway we don't have that much monetary corruption, but we have a lot of "kompistjeneste"

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> average Nordic Baltic person there is no average person, it is a myth of statistics.

A meaningless distinction and unnecessarily nitpicky. From a scientific perspective it's not a myth, it's a valuable tool. For the average person (see what I did there?) it's not a mathematical formula, it's way of saying "that person whose characteristic being discussed is very common and representative of the whole group".

All models are wrong, but some are useful.

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#34

> The report tells the story of Bendik, who has Down syndrome and is denied BankID, thereby losing access to digital public services due to his diagnosis. The article is light on details. Are people being denied BankID due to having an autism diagnosis? There are some crazy details in this story that are presented as side notes in between long paragraphs of filler text that don’t contribute anything. It’s an article…

I'm assuming it fails to do face recognition, but yes the article is clearly very one sided on making 'digital ID' look bad.

The other part of the problem not discussed in this article is that many services now require digital ID. Banks don't really have many physical locations any more, etc. So not having a digital ID is seriously impractical, and it didn't have to be this way. That is IMO a big factor for why digital ID is receiving so much flac: "Digital ID isn't something everyone can have, and for the corner-case people, the alternatives are drying up due to over-digitalization"

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#35
Sometimes I wonder if we should consider using some sort of a hardware key going forward, like a Yubikey or similar product. Physical devices are fairly easy to understand, and a simple on-device PIN or fingerprint-reader adds a 2FA that prevents a lot of fraud. While an ID number is fairly easy to steal, a GPG private key is nearly impossible if handled right.

Of course, the flip-side, this would open up more opportunities for tracking (requiring the hardware keys to log into Facebook). However, in most societies, we do need some way of authenticating who is who, and at least this approach makes fraud much more difficult.

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming it fails to do face recognition, but yes the article is clearly very one sided on making 'digital ID' look bad.

The other part of the problem not discussed in this article is that many services now require digital ID. Banks don't really have many physical locations any more, etc. So not having a digital ID is seriously impractical, and it didn't have to be this way. That is IMO a big factor for why digital ID is receiving so much flac: "Digital ID isn't something everyone can have, and for the corner-case people, the alternati…

In my country during covid banks virtually eliminated the cash. There is maybe one branch left per major city dealing with cash. The few remaining branches are "lounge areas" where they tell you to set up their app and do everything by yourself.

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#37
post #23

The article title actually says it is a success as well as a disaster. The title here has been shortened. And, as the professor in the article explains, it is a “disaster” for a small minority. And those are not he same minority who struggled for the same reasons before, and those difficulties ought be addressed. The system can be improved. But it’s largely a success for the vast majority too. I don’t personally know…

> Very few people in a cashless society are wanting to go back to the old ways. I don’t think that’s true. Also, never “trust” a bank with your money, for starters, “your money” is nothing but a fake number that doesn’t actually reflect a physical monetary asset, hence why if enough amount of people withdraw their money, you end up with a bank run, aka, the bank digital fake numbers are more than the actual physical…

>I don’t think that’s true.

It is.

Source, me in Sweden.

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So homeless might be refused ID? They're no longer a person?

What otherwise will you do with people priced out of the real estate market and unable to compile valid elaborate application documents to rent something? /s

Soylent Green?

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#39

Sometimes I wonder if we should consider using some sort of a hardware key going forward, like a Yubikey or similar product. Physical devices are fairly easy to understand, and a simple on-device PIN or fingerprint-reader adds a 2FA that prevents a lot of fraud. While an ID number is fairly easy to steal, a GPG private key is nearly impossible if handled right. Of course, the flip-side, this would open up more opport…

U2F token is used by one eIDAS identity provider in Czechia.

Re: Digital identity management in Norway is a success but also a disaster

#40

Sometimes I wonder if we should consider using some sort of a hardware key going forward, like a Yubikey or similar product. Physical devices are fairly easy to understand, and a simple on-device PIN or fingerprint-reader adds a 2FA that prevents a lot of fraud. While an ID number is fairly easy to steal, a GPG private key is nearly impossible if handled right. Of course, the flip-side, this would open up more opport…

Yes I think government issued credentials like Estonia does is very neat, and preferable to what we have in USA when you need to verify your identify to interact with online gov services, the id.me, which is taking a video and uploading it to some third party to say 'yep that's the person definitely using their laptop right now', as if gen-AI hasn't already made that obsolete.

Besides that we have the technology for services to ask 'yes/no' questions of a secure enclave without revealing the personal data, like 'is this person's birthdate after May 29 2005', instead of letting every liquor store and gas station scan the barcode of your government ID including your home address

Sometimes it makes me feel crazy what we collectively have settled on.

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