Live data from Hacker News

The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

carryology.com

31–39 of 39 posts

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't try to, I just make assumptions about long walls of text that manage to entirely miss the point. Assuming you actually put time into what you wrote would be the less charitable interpretation.

> Is it war in general that accelerates material technology, or simply WWII The reply did not miss the point, it was addressing a question directly posed in the original comment.

It didn't, though, the question you quoted is a rhetorical question posed to point out the awkwardness of the original piece's phrasing.

By taking the question seriously, you and the person I replied to both have missed the point.

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#32
post #20

What can we anthropomorphize next? “Think of it like this. Imagine you have a room full of people on one side of a door, and an empty room on the other side. Open the door and people will naturally drift toward the empty room. That’s how Gore-Tex breathes.”

Anthropomorphization is just such a sexy, attractive guy. So seductive. I always give in to what he wants…

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The newer GoreTex jackets work worse than previous ones. Much of it has to do with the DWR. The previous DWR that has now been banned for its inclusion of PFAS (forever chemicals) which did a much, much better job than the newer, non-PFAS DWR. This switch happened in the States last year I believe. Gore-Tex these days is not made out of Teflon itself (as the fine article talks about) and its replacement is fine.…

Thanks for the detailed clarification. As to the DWR, my experience says that the best GoreTex jacket is one without a nylon outer layer, and therefore no need for DWR. The GoreTex Shakedry jackets finally delivered on the promise GoreTex had made for 50 years. And they did it by just giving you a jacket made out of a sheet of GoreTex and nothing else. No nylon outer layer, no need to mess with DWR. As it turns out,…

You are correct re: Shakedry. What's interesting to me is that it used the now discontinued ePTFE which manufacturing used PFAS in production, but there is still no alternative PFAS-free Shakedry, despite now having an advantage of not requiring a DWR at all.

I would agree that even with the delicateness of Shakedry, or Shakedry-like product, there would still a use case and market.

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't try to, I just make assumptions about long walls of text that manage to entirely miss the point. Assuming you actually put time into what you wrote would be the less charitable interpretation.

> Is it war in general that accelerates material technology, or simply WWII The reply did not miss the point, it was addressing a question directly posed in the original comment.

As the poser of the obviously rhetorical question in question ...

for many speakers of English as a first language seeped in the conventions of English conversation, storytelling, and literature it was a clear juxtaposition intended to single out the ridiculous proposition that technology advances during wartime are somehow tied to WWII alone.

Have a look at the original sentence again, it's absolutely a clunker, very probably the product of a clanker (or of an ESL human).

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#35
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM or human, World War II did what it always does to materials technology: it accelerated it by decades. is a clunker of a sentence. (NB: didn't say 'clanker') Is it war in general that accelerates material technology, or simply WWII .. which is seemingly something that can be applied many times .. just add a dash of WWII to your tech.

Wars have accelerated technology for 2 reasons. The first is that the governments were willing to allocate vast amounts of money and resources for the development of new materials that would give them advantages over the opponents. During normal market conditions, it would have been impossible to secure so much money for research whose results were uncertain to generate financial profits. The second reason is that du…

[deleted]

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#36
post #2

Interesting but I can't deal with the AI generated prose. Sentences like "This was not a garment for walking between a carriage and a doorway. It was ..." show me no human has proof read or edited the text.

It's not just the prose but article's structure that seems to have an AI-suggestive weirdness. Wikipedia's history of the raincoat [1] gives a sort of reasonable narrative of water resistant garment's through the ages. The main is that the Mackintosh and other innovations weren't the start of raincoats but versions of raincoats that arose with mass production. Mass production often doesn't make better things but it can make adequate things available to more people.

Even more, googling the history of waterproof garments, I found a variety of product catalogues and a museum brochure [2] that gave a "history" similar to the article. My guess is these are shallow histories of products (Mackintosh, Gortex, etc) and they all copied each other (manually) and then AI copied the narrative (automatically).

But more than copying the narrative, the article tries to make this haphazard narrative into something more systematic. But there is where the rhetorical structure actually starts to strain.

And the last paragraph about waxed coats is distinctly bizarre: "The waxed cotton coat was not a technical solution. It was a cultural one, a garment that said something about who you were and how you spent your time, that happened to keep you reasonably dry while you were doing it. " In late 19th century Britain, the class system didn't involve anyone signally that they spent time fishing in an open boat (maybe 2020's US has wealthy MAGA type who want to impersonate rawboned sons of toil but that can't be project view back to the past).

And yes, the prose is more jarring the more closely you read the text.

And jeesh, tearing apart a text that was likely automatically generated in the blink of an eye might show defense beats offense these day (and damn, it's hard to avoid these AIism myself). But at least it gives insight into crazy stuff that can even reach the top of hn.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raincoat

[2] https://www.vam.ac.uk/blog/textiles-and-fashion/a-very-brief...

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#37
post #20

What can we anthropomorphize next? “Think of it like this. Imagine you have a room full of people on one side of a door, and an empty room on the other side. Open the door and people will naturally drift toward the empty room. That’s how Gore-Tex breathes.”

Anthropomorphization is just such a sexy, attractive guy. So seductive. I always give in to what he wants…

Walt Disney?

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The newer GoreTex jackets work worse than previous ones. Much of it has to do with the DWR. The previous DWR that has now been banned for its inclusion of PFAS (forever chemicals) which did a much, much better job than the newer, non-PFAS DWR. This switch happened in the States last year I believe. Gore-Tex these days is not made out of Teflon itself (as the fine article talks about) and its replacement is fine.…

Thanks for the detailed clarification. As to the DWR, my experience says that the best GoreTex jacket is one without a nylon outer layer, and therefore no need for DWR. The GoreTex Shakedry jackets finally delivered on the promise GoreTex had made for 50 years. And they did it by just giving you a jacket made out of a sheet of GoreTex and nothing else. No nylon outer layer, no need to mess with DWR. As it turns out,…

> Hopefully there will be workable alternatives by then.

I think Columbia’s OutDry Extreme tech is essentially the same thing with the membrane on the outside, which they claim is toughened to withstand abrasion, so maybe holds up better than ShakeDry:

https://www.columbia.com/meet-outdry-extreme.html

I haven’t tried it myself but I found it while researching this topic recently

Re: The and Wonderful Evolution of the Waterproof Jacket

#39
post #26

I wonder about hot environments where it rains, like tropical countries. Any tips or insights on what works best?

Staying dry (from the elements) is a lot less important. Once you start moving, the lack of breathability in any waterproof jacket means that you'll be soaking wet from your own sweat. People over-emphasize the staying dry part, not understanding that the point of staying dry is usually to stay warm. If it's hot outside, staying dry is not that important.

yes, until you have to walk into an air conditioned environment.
Post reply on HN