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BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

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Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#31

Post by microtonal »

dsign wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

I think you are underestimating how many companies use 3D printing for prototyping. It's not just hobbyists printing miniatures.

To give an example, I had RSI and use a high-end, expensive ergonomic keyboard. The company that makes these keyboards does not go immediately from design idea to an expensive mold. There are many design iterations and prototypes and they are all 3D prints.

The same is probably true for air humidifiers, drones, or whatever other object you can come up with.

If you have access to everyone's STLs, you basically have access to all the design prototypes and something close to the final product.

It's like industrial espionage, except companies are willingly giving you the data, because they do not want to spend the extra money for a farm of Prusa printers.

It's a brilliant play of the Chinese government. Exploiting that we prefer short-term savings over long-term strategy.

This pattern repeats over and over again, from 3D printers to people buying Chinese fitness watches because they are cheaper than EU and US counterparts.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#32

Post by amazingamazing »

pocksuppet wrote: post #30
amazingamazing wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xcancel is against the x terms of service. But no one really cares because it is not perceived as an issue, similar to this situation

Terms of service are not legally binding, copyright licenses are legally binding.

There is no precedent for AGPL enforcement against Chinese companies, so no, not really.

Feel free to post a docket if you disagree though. Also there are plenty of cases for ToS violations look up Facebook vs BrandTotal, or more recently Epic vs Apple.

In the same way no one here cares about archive.org paywall circumvention, non techie end users don't care about open source violations (why should they). Look at the very link we are discussing for proof.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#33

Post by My_Name »

I use my printer to make prototypes for my business. There is no way in hell I'm sending them into the internet for some random to examine.

I think my next printer will be mostly 3D printed, with a few generic parts like motor controllers, the odd bit of metal tubing, off the shelf bed levelling system, open source software etc.

I only need single colour prints for work, and AFAIK the fastest printer on the planet is mostly 3D printed, I'd start with that one as a base and adapt it for my needs. I considered Bambu until they started down the road that ends with me not having control of the product I own. Any company on that path does not get my money.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#34

Post by amazingamazing »

My_Name wrote: post #33

I use my printer to make prototypes for my business. There is no way in hell I'm sending them into the internet for some random to examine. I think my next printer will be mostly 3D printed, with a few generic parts like motor controllers, the odd bit of metal tubing, off the shelf bed levelling system, open source software etc. I only need single colour prints for work, and AFAIK the fastest printer on the planet is…

Seems like an overreaction. Licensing aside it is trivial to use a Bambu completely air gapped. If someone uses AI at all but cares about this I hope the irony is not lost on them.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#35

Post by Filligree »

amazingamazing wrote: post #34
My_Name wrote: post #33

I use my printer to make prototypes for my business. There is no way in hell I'm sending them into the internet for some random to examine. I think my next printer will be mostly 3D printed, with a few generic parts like motor controllers, the odd bit of metal tubing, off the shelf bed levelling system, open source software etc. I only need single colour prints for work, and AFAIK the fastest printer on the planet is…

Seems like an overreaction. Licensing aside it is trivial to use a Bambu completely air gapped. If someone uses AI at all but cares about this I hope the irony is not lost on them.

Or a Prusa. They even sell a variant with no network hardware at all, for the terminally paranoid.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#36

Post by Joel_Mckay »

parker-3461 wrote: post #18
dsign wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

I was curious about this as well. Hypothetically, if they are really trying to extract insight, they could be: - Industrial trend pattern: even if only people accidentally leave the Cloud Feature on initially, there could be some that slip through. It could be product categories way before the public knows about it. - Defence and aerospace: obviously less likely, but if people use Strava in odd locations, and people…

In general, the PRC government will install local politically connected members into advisor roles in almost all large companies. It is something a lot of businesses simply have no control over in that country, or in the US for that matter.

The locked ecosystem posture is simply because with a billion people a firm of any size always has irrational competitors/cloners. Sometimes the governments national policy aligns with a firm, but the support always comes at a price for every business owner. Communism is certainly different with subsidized labor pools, and worker support obligations.

Both China and the US governments engage in trade policy/intelligence shenanigans to try to position themselves for whats more than fair.

Global businesses must learn there is no difference between feigned incompetence, and real negligence. As a small firm most simply can't afford to defend themselves legally if targeted, and vastly undervalue why QA checkpoint roles are important. =3

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/26184/26184-h/26184-h.htm

China is a big place, having both good and bad businesses... just like the US. =3

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#37

Post by doginasuit »

pocksuppet wrote: post #29
doginasuit wrote: post #21

[flagged]

Copyleft is about freedom of consumers to make whatever choice fits their target, unlike permissive licensing, which is about freedom of corporations to take away freedom of consumers.

Surprisingly, there are use-cases for closed source other than the of greed of corporations. A server is one of those use-cases. I love to see open source servers and have worked on them myself but there are obvious reasons why that is not always feasible.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#38

Post by Joel_Mckay »

Renaud wrote: post #24
dsign wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

Not everything that a Chinese company does is for nefarious reason or under the hidden agenda of the Chinese government. The reality is much more mundane: many Chinese companies do not understand the expectations around open source. There isn’t anything really equivalent in China. The closest mindset is that things that are available to use, are available to take. The notion of copyright -while not inexistent- is not…

There are cultural differences in attitudes toward individual ownership of IP under communism. It is a recent change for China firms to bother getting international patents and trademarks.

Naomi Wu made herself notable in media, and in China "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down". Unfortunate, as she seemed like a real entrepreneurial leader with skill. =3

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#39

Post by tjoff »

amazingamazing wrote: post #34
My_Name wrote: post #33

I use my printer to make prototypes for my business. There is no way in hell I'm sending them into the internet for some random to examine. I think my next printer will be mostly 3D printed, with a few generic parts like motor controllers, the odd bit of metal tubing, off the shelf bed levelling system, open source software etc. I only need single colour prints for work, and AFAIK the fastest printer on the planet is…

Seems like an overreaction. Licensing aside it is trivial to use a Bambu completely air gapped. If someone uses AI at all but cares about this I hope the irony is not lost on them.

Or, just maybe, buy a printer that does not actively disrespect their users?

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#40

Post by deno »

thriododkdje wrote: post #12

I would like some precedents, to see if AGPL is actually enforceable. Many licenses put several demands on user, but are some parts are void and illegal. Like OEM licenses for MS Windows, that forbit reselling. License can not order someone to publish something. They may not have a rights to publish code, or it was created as part of employment...

AGPLv3 still has the termination clause which is at least in the worst case (total failure to comply) entirely self-contained.

I'm not however convinced they are really in violation by calling a binary plugin. GPL itself does not forbid you from dynamically linking to or calling unrelated software. The network plugin is analogous to a device driver, it's not core part of the slicer.

GPL differentiates between a "Combined Work" and an "Aggregate":

> A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an "aggregate" if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation's users beyond what the individual works permit. Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate.

If they tried to add DRM to Bambu Studio and prevent you from replacing their blackbox with a different one then that would be where they would clearly go against the v3's TiVo provisions.

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