Live data from Hacker News

Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

pcguide.com

31–40 of 91 posts

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#31
> What’s interesting is that while the game itself often crashed during launch, the malicious software continued running quietly in the background.

Wonder how much longer it could have remain undetected if it actually fired up a shovelware game that could run properly, things like crashing probably gave it away way faster than it could've.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#33
post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

SteamOS leverages namespaces via pressure-vessel already. The problem exists exclusively on Windows. Paravirtualized drivers introduce API incompatibility issues and decades of cumulative engine infrastructure made for Windows using the Win32 API means nobody wants to swap over to using UWP and thus AppContainers are a non-starter (and that's without getting to sacrificing Wine/Proton compatibility).

The native isolation mechanisms like silos are things that require wrangling by professional sysadmins, I didn't even know they existed until I started writing this post. The real question to be asking is why is sandboxing so bad on Windows? Despite some searching, I still have no conclusive answer as to how to go about filesystem isolation in Win32-space, or if it's even possible.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#34
post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

PC games tend to be the reverse: they demand control over the machine, in order to try to detect or prevent being run alongside various forms of cheating software.

They also need low-latency access to the GPU, which I suspect is a fertile vector for privilege escape exploits.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#35
post #21

What about all the other games with malware, like Denuvo and similar?

"drm is malware" is so 2005.

Well, Riot Games just today (!) admitted to hard-bricking cheating hardware [1]. This kind of stuff definitely is malware, and your comment aged like milk.

[1] https://videocardz.com/newz/riot-games-on-valorant-dma-cheat...

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#36
post #21

What about all the other games with malware, like Denuvo and similar?

"drm is malware" is so 2005.

"We have to stop the nazis" is so 1940s.

"Congress is engaged in a witch hunt" is so 1950s.

"Civil rights should be applied to everyone" is so 1960s.

"Fossil Fuels are destroying the plant" is so 1970s.

"Unregulated free trade is dangerous" is so 1980s.

"The police are out of control and unduly target minorities" is so 1990s.

Something being old doesn't make it less relevant or important.

It means we need to say it louder, because for some reason the point hasn't been made clearly enough yet.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#37
post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

They are? Games need pretty much all the performance they can possibly get. Can you sandbox them without having a performance impact?

Consider that people pay a $300 premium to get ~10% better performance (buying an RTX 5080 instead of a 5070 Ti).

Personally I know that sometimes closing the web browser in the background makes my game run better - that web browser doesn't even interact with the game! Would a sandbox have a smaller impact?

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running games on Linux via Proton provides some isolation. It’s not technically a proper sandbox though.

Proton is just emulation, and it will happily expose the underlying host system to the running game software. In particular the filesystem and some peripheral devices. However, Valve is moving towards sandboxing in Steam. You can already run the whole thing with a flatpak sandbox, and valve themselves are using ostree. With srvio is possible to run the whole thing in a throwaway windows vm while the graphics card is…

This is why it was foolish to give a new name to it. It was originally called Wine Is Not an Emulator.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#39
post #34
post #13

Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?

PC games tend to be the reverse: they demand control over the machine, in order to try to detect or prevent being run alongside various forms of cheating software. They also need low-latency access to the GPU, which I suspect is a fertile vector for privilege escape exploits.

Only a relatively small (but popular) subset of games use anticheat. Most games -- including the one in this article -- could theoretically run in a sandbox.

Re: Valve removes free game from Steam after players discover it contains malware

#40
post #24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"drm is malware" is so 2005.

"rootkits are malware" is in fact eternal.

Usually when people complain about Denuvo, they're talking about Denuvo Anti-Tamper, which (perhaps surprisingly) is not a rootkit.
Post reply on HN