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Buy Nothing Day

adbusters.org

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Re: Buy Nothing Day

#31

Post by orijing »

balsam wrote: post #18
pg wrote: post #9

People who think it's bad to want the world economy to grow probably haven't stopped to think about what economic growth consists of. Economic growth isn't just fat Americans buying bigger SUVs. It's also people in poor countries increasing their standard of living, and advances in medical care.

could there be a case however against economic growth being too fast? an example of too fast would be building a chernobyl before the safety infrastructure was up.

I wouldn't consider that growth, though.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#32

Post by illuminate »

rizzom5000 wrote: post #4

Really, the American brand of capitalism isn't the same as European capitalism or Japanese capitalism. Even within America, there are many different types of capitalist economies. While I share Adbuster's disgust with the hordes of zombie sheep lining up to consume in excessive quantity things that they do not need, I don't think this has anything to do with Capitalism as an economic philosophy.

"I don't think this has anything to do with Capitalism as an economic philosophy"

The manner in which Capitalism is implemented and followed is just as important as abstract philosophy. Deeds, not words.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#33

Post by alainbryden »

illuminate wrote: post #27
alainbryden wrote: post #13

I buy nothing about 95% of the days in a year. I don't get why this is supposed to make such a difference?

That 5% of purchases makes up the majority of these retailers profits is why.

That is irrelevant to the point at hand - asking everyone to not buy things on one day, even if successful, merely postpones the retailers' revenues by a day or so.

A more poignant campaign would revolve around convincing people not to buy certain unnecessary things at all, ever.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#34

Post by pg »

illuminate wrote: post #24
pg wrote: post #9

People who think it's bad to want the world economy to grow probably haven't stopped to think about what economic growth consists of. Economic growth isn't just fat Americans buying bigger SUVs. It's also people in poor countries increasing their standard of living, and advances in medical care.

Criticizing globalism and the externalities of "wanting the world economy to grow" is not an argument against increasing the standards of living worldwide, and I'm not sure why you're conflating the two.

The site specifically says we have to challenge the idea "that the economy must always keep growing."

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#35

Post by lutusp »

shuzchen wrote: post #26
fleitz wrote: post #3

“Today, humanity faces a stark choice: save the planet and ditch capitalism, or save capitalism and ditch the planet.” Move to North Korea, everyday is buy nothing day and best of all, none of that horrid capitalism.

The funny thing is that the people in North Korea only survived due to capitalism. Because the government has been incapable of distributing food, people have been forced to obtain it by trading in ad-hoc black markets.

Yes, and also by periodic acts of charity from capitalist countries. North Korea asserts its right to have any political system it wants, then its programs fail, then it threatens war, then the west gives in and provides emergency food supplies. Then the process repeats.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#36

Post by illuminate »

rohern wrote: post #30
illuminate wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticizing globalism and the externalities of "wanting the world economy to grow" is not an argument against increasing the standards of living worldwide, and I'm not sure why you're conflating the two.

His point is that one of the main avenues for the poor to leave poverty is through capitalistic action. If you are arguing for the restriction of that behavior, you are arguing for the restriction of opportunities to leave behind poverty. As pathetic as it is to see people camping out at Wal-mart to buy products they do not particularly need (indeed, many of them would be better off if they saved the money that they…

"If you are arguing for the restriction of that behavior, you are arguing for the restriction of opportunities to leave behind poverty."

That doesn't follow. Laissez-faire capitalism does not necessarily lead to greater class mobility. The idea that one must abandon "restriction" of capitalism to offer the greatest benefit to any individual is ridiculous.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#37

Post by creatrixcordis »

pg wrote: post #9

People who think it's bad to want the world economy to grow probably haven't stopped to think about what economic growth consists of. Economic growth isn't just fat Americans buying bigger SUVs. It's also people in poor countries increasing their standard of living, and advances in medical care.

Yeah right!!! Nice spin on it dude. Increasing their standard of living while being subject to poor environmental conditions because of their corrupt officials who are pushed to be corrupt by our corrupt politicians, and so on. It's easy for you to say that while living in the land of the plenty and the so called free. Why dont you focus exclusively on startups with a whole-world(env-friendly) minded approach, because you my friend are in a position to impact the world for the good more than other people. Im sure the over consumption could be regulated a bit by a buy nothing day, its no different than a turn off your lights day, it's actually better than that, it forces us to ask why do we buy? And if your answer to that is "to be happy" oh man you have swallowed the wrong pill when given the choice. -a person that will never kiss your ass

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#38

Post by illuminate »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #19

Is it just me that's sick and tired of all these extreme all or nothing causes? It's either no patents or leave it the same, it's either capitalism is all bad or all good, it's either we are saving the planet or burning it as we go. You know we can just change certain laws in the patent system to get it fixed right? You understand that the idea of someone being able to sale their hard work for a living isn't evil rig…

"It's called moderation."

If moderation was the natural state of things, we wouldn't have to argue for it.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#39

Post by bhickey »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #19

Is it just me that's sick and tired of all these extreme all or nothing causes? It's either no patents or leave it the same, it's either capitalism is all bad or all good, it's either we are saving the planet or burning it as we go. You know we can just change certain laws in the patent system to get it fixed right? You understand that the idea of someone being able to sale their hard work for a living isn't evil rig…

I was pleased to see a recent PETA campaign advocating for the use of controlled atmosphere killing of poultry. Rather than their typical sensationalist approach (ex. http://www.peta.org/features/would-you-eat-a-chickens-period...) that appeal only to the faithful. They made economic arguments:

Typical slaughterhouse practices are stressful for workers and lead to damaged product.

Improving worker conditions decreases employee turn over and boosts yield.

It's probably wishful thinking to take this as a signal they're transitioning to become a serious advocacy organization.

Re: Buy Nothing Day

#40

Post by mseebach »

balsam wrote: post #18
pg wrote: post #9

People who think it's bad to want the world economy to grow probably haven't stopped to think about what economic growth consists of. Economic growth isn't just fat Americans buying bigger SUVs. It's also people in poor countries increasing their standard of living, and advances in medical care.

could there be a case however against economic growth being too fast? an example of too fast would be building a chernobyl before the safety infrastructure was up.

As others have pointed out, Chernobyl is a terribly example for the point you're trying to make.

Growth can probably be too fast - China has some problems in this regard, infrastructure, basic services, environmental concerns, the political system etc. can't quite keep up with the reasonable demands of a rapidly growing new middle class.

The growth rates attainable for the US and Europe, however, are unlikely to be dangerous.

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