Live data from Hacker News

What is a Demand Coop

cahootzcoops.com

31–40 of 120 posts

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#31

Essentially, we need more unions - I'm not sure we have to invent new names for these things. These won't be your parents' unions, or the union boogeyman you may have seen on TV—the union can do exactly what you wish it to do. I've been (unintentionally) part of two union drives in my own life and have seen friends in an unrelated field participate in a third. They make perfect sense in moments like our current one,…

I'll never understand why so many tech workers are so strongly against the idea of unions. I've yet to encounter a criticism that doesn't essentially stem from criticism of blue-collar unions, and regardless of whether I agree with those criticisms or not, almost none of them seem to be universally true of unions. People seem to be worried about either a small minority of vocal outliers driving the policy or collectivism of the masses somehow drowning out the desires of the elite few, but they never seem to address the obvious counterexamples in higher-paid work; the $780,000 minimum salary for MLB players doesn't seem to have stopped Shohei Ohtani from getting a contract making almost 90 times more than that per year, and Adam Sandler doesn't seem like he's struggling with his $48 million payout last year despite the union-negotiated guarantees for anyone getting a speaking role on screen existing for decades.

(I'n not usually on the "downvoting for disagreement is bad" train, but when the major point of my comment is that there never seems to be a strong counterargument to the line of thinking here, it's hard not to find it a bit ironic when someone doesn't care to elaborate on why they don't like what I said)

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#32
post #29

Essentially, we need more unions - I'm not sure we have to invent new names for these things. These won't be your parents' unions, or the union boogeyman you may have seen on TV—the union can do exactly what you wish it to do. I've been (unintentionally) part of two union drives in my own life and have seen friends in an unrelated field participate in a third. They make perfect sense in moments like our current one,…

> the union can do exactly what you wish it to do. ICE can also do "exactly what you wish it to do", so why do people complain about it so much and want it gone when it does what people want? The answer is that even democratic institutions easily get corrupted and hard to deal with. US unions seem to be very prone to this for some reason, both union leaders and corporate lobbyists wants the unions to be corrupt so I…

> ICE can also do "exactly what you wish it to do"

What?

Unless you are Congress, you can't create ICE at your workplace. You can, however, create a union.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#33

Essentially, we need more unions - I'm not sure we have to invent new names for these things. These won't be your parents' unions, or the union boogeyman you may have seen on TV—the union can do exactly what you wish it to do. I've been (unintentionally) part of two union drives in my own life and have seen friends in an unrelated field participate in a third. They make perfect sense in moments like our current one,…

My only experience with unions was as a low level employee while I was in high school. It consisted of certain employees trying to drum up willingness to unionize through a combination of unrealistic promises and threats of violence. The company I worked for at the time was in trouble and went out of business before the unionization effort came to a vote. I don't know how representative my experience was, but it defi…

So, the company was in trouble and the adults understood that. They probably wanted to fight to make sure they didn't lose their 401ks or pension, or be able to hold onto some insurance so the c suite didn't gut the company and leave everyone high and dry. Sounds like you just generally didn't understand the situation, being a kid.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#34

Essentially, we need more unions - I'm not sure we have to invent new names for these things. These won't be your parents' unions, or the union boogeyman you may have seen on TV—the union can do exactly what you wish it to do. I've been (unintentionally) part of two union drives in my own life and have seen friends in an unrelated field participate in a third. They make perfect sense in moments like our current one,…

> the union can do exactly what you wish it to do. There is no such thing. A problem with a union is that everyone's going the same place, and you're not driving. Maybe that place is better than where you could get to on your own, or maybe not. But one thing that is definitely not true is that your union is going to do exactly what you want.

> There is no such thing.

There really is! I've been in three unions, every place I worked. The first and third one existed beforehand, while I helped start the second.

A union is a group of people—and like any group, your influence is what you make it to be.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The best time to form a union was 20 years ago (Especially because Tech Workers had leverage because they were in demand). The second best time to form a union is today.

Call it an association or guild or something other than a union. Lawyers and doctor have unions but they don't call it that.

> Lawyers and doctor

Doctors definitely have unions!

You're thinking of the AMA which is a lobbying organization, totally different thing.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#36
post #4

> In many existing demand cooperatives, such as rotating savings groups, there is often a trusted central coordinator — frequently an older community member — who helps maintain accountability and keep the interests of the group aligned. Aligned with what? Whenever a central position is formed with power over something, even if it’s only a steering power, it will be sought out by power-hungry people and manipulated.…

> will be sought out by power-hungry people

Agreed.

> and manipulated.

That does not necessarily follow.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#37
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it an association or guild or something other than a union. Lawyers and doctor have unions but they don't call it that.

Those are setting the minimum qualifications for a licensed profession... but not the pay or working conditions for those professionals.

> Those are setting the minimum qualifications for a licensed profession...

They're not even doing that! In the US, these qualifications are matters of state law.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#38
post #4

> In many existing demand cooperatives, such as rotating savings groups, there is often a trusted central coordinator — frequently an older community member — who helps maintain accountability and keep the interests of the group aligned. Aligned with what? Whenever a central position is formed with power over something, even if it’s only a steering power, it will be sought out by power-hungry people and manipulated.…

> will be sought out by power-hungry people Agreed. > and manipulated. That does not necessarily follow.

[flagged]

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cool thing about a union is that you actually can have a say in what political battles they fight You just can't do that if you only want to be a passive member

I don’t want to waste time to fight battles within the union. This is exactly what I’m talking about. If it’s just a political nonprofit with forced donations, I’d rather see them banned than join one.

> I’d rather see them banned than join one.

The only group that will benefit from this position is that of the owners.

Re: What is a Demand Coop

#40
post #4

> In many existing demand cooperatives, such as rotating savings groups, there is often a trusted central coordinator — frequently an older community member — who helps maintain accountability and keep the interests of the group aligned. Aligned with what? Whenever a central position is formed with power over something, even if it’s only a steering power, it will be sought out by power-hungry people and manipulated.…

> how they’d address them rather than waving it all away under the guidance of a benevolent individual at the center. Believe it or not, there’s no power structure that is immune to not having a benevolent individual at the center. That’s because most things are norms and practices developed culturally, not codified in power structures or laws.

Agreed.

The most valuable resource is trust. Follow closely by the trust-structures to deal with the ramifications of the primary trust-relationship being broken.

That is to say, the most fundamental rule is contract law.

Post reply on HN