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Don't answer the first question

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Re: Don't answer the first question

#31

Post by mathisfun123 »

sceptic123 wrote: post #27
mathisfun123 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's called being XYed and it's infuriating when some condescending person decides they know so much better than you that even your question is wrong.

What resonated with me in this article was that there's something about question itself that seems off. And that's even more the case if you answer a lot of people's questions on similar topics. This guy's post is obviously coming rom that standpoint, he's an expert on the software he's supporting people to use. But if you genuinely find that you're often being guided to Y when your actual need is X then perhaps you…

After becoming familiar with XY I have learned to specify "yes this is really the problem I'm trying to solve". Invariably you still get people asking "are you sure".

Re: Don't answer the first question

#32

Post by nix0n »

xnx wrote: post #12

Domo is now apparently "Governed Data for AI Agents". The desperation for commodity services and second-tier products to stay relevant is widespread. See also intercom.com "The only helpdesk designed for the AI Agent era".

I think this comment got attached to the wrong article somehow. Not relevant here but probably relevant to "Enough with the AI FOMO, go slow-mo, says Domo CDO"[0]

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48179029

Re: Don't answer the first question

#33

Post by xnx »

nix0n wrote: post #32
xnx wrote: post #12

Domo is now apparently "Governed Data for AI Agents". The desperation for commodity services and second-tier products to stay relevant is widespread. See also intercom.com "The only helpdesk designed for the AI Agent era".

I think this comment got attached to the wrong article somehow. Not relevant here but probably relevant to "Enough with the AI FOMO, go slow-mo, says Domo CDO"[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48179029

Facepalm. Thank you.

Re: Don't answer the first question

#34

Post by advisedwang »

paultopia wrote: post #4

While this strategy is fine for clueless users, I suspect that it will lead to immense frustration for the ones with clues

People who really have a clue add enough context in their request to understand why they are trying to do the thing in question.

Re: Don't answer the first question

#35

Post by pixl97 »

mathisfun123 wrote: post #31
sceptic123 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What resonated with me in this article was that there's something about question itself that seems off. And that's even more the case if you answer a lot of people's questions on similar topics. This guy's post is obviously coming rom that standpoint, he's an expert on the software he's supporting people to use. But if you genuinely find that you're often being guided to Y when your actual need is X then perhaps you…

After becoming familiar with XY I have learned to specify "yes this is really the problem I'm trying to solve". Invariably you still get people asking "are you sure".

If you are sure, you're generally not going to answer "Yea, I'm sure", you'll answer "Yea, I'm sure because A, B, C"

In fact, if you're asking on a forum about how to solve X, be sure to add "because A, B, C" or you're just wasting everyone else's fucking time. The more details you put up front, the more apt you're going to get the answer you're looking for in the first place instead of wasting everyone elses time of exploring the problem space.

Re: Don't answer the first question

#36

Post by hamdingers »

mathisfun123 wrote: post #22
otterley wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they do, in fact, have the experience to “know better”?

What if they don't, in fact, have more experience than me? Edit: this is why tech people are insufferable socially. In any other walk of life assuming you know more than someone is a manifestly obvious faux pas.

Then solve the problem yourself? Why are you asking someone who knows less than you?

We need a word for the inverse of being XY'd for when someone asks an XY question but is too proud to accept there's a better alternative to X

Re: Don't answer the first question

#37

Post by eschneider »

paultopia wrote: post #4

While this strategy is fine for clueless users, I suspect that it will lead to immense frustration for the ones with clues

There's a fine line here when dealing with customers. Sometimes it works well to answer the exact question, if you can, and follow up with "Can you tell me a bit why you're asking so I can understand a bit more about the problem?" Once you tease out a bit more about how they got there, it's often possible to offer better solutions and it never feels like you blew off their original ask.

Re: Don't answer the first question

#38

Post by BeetleB »

otterley wrote: post #15
ramon156 wrote: post #11

This isn't a black-and-white tactic. If you do this with people who know their stuff, they will just take it as you undermining them.

I think it depends on the individual and the culture. In a strong culture, engineers don’t their egos get in the way of healthy conversations and will be capable of defending their position against probing questions without it upsetting them.

> In a strong culture, engineers don’t their egos get in the way of healthy conversations and will be capable of defending their position against probing questions without it upsetting them.

Everything is great when you don't have constraints. If I, however, have to spend 30-60 minutes justifying something to you every time I come to you, then you definitely are the problem.

Using the wrong tool to solve a problem is not inherently problematic. If it's a one-off and it solves the problem, abusing an existing tools is about the finest engineering imaginable. Sure, if it's a long term solution to something important, I can understand the pushback.

As other commenters have said: I'm all for a deeper discussion provided two things:

1. Both of us have the time.

2. You actually answer the question I asked.

Not providing an answer is patronizing.

Re: Don't answer the first question

#39

Post by TonyAlicea10 »

This is in many ways what user experience designers might call "the five whys". People don't express their problem in the form of a problem, but a solution they've thought of. They don't say "I'm hungry, find me a way to get food" they say "I need a ride to the grocery store".

I always teach designers to remember that users and stakeholders aren't software designers. So we should pay careful attention to their problems, but not assume their solution is the right one (though it can be).

Getting these questions answered without insulting the requester (especially stakeholders) is an important soft skill. You have to make them feel heard, intelligent, and supported.

Re: Don't answer the first question

#40

Post by BeetleB »

otterley wrote: post #23
mathisfun123 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they don't, in fact, have more experience than me? Edit: this is why tech people are insufferable socially. In any other walk of life assuming you know more than someone is a manifestly obvious faux pas.

This is a hypothetical, not an assumption. I’m interested in your response to the hypothetical. As a side note, experience isn’t a unidimensional value that is directly comparable. You can have more experience than someone else in one dimension, and the other person can have more experience than you in a different dimension. I’d never argue with my mother about how to perform a blood draw.

You answered your own question:

> experience isn’t a unidimensional value that is directly comparable. You can have more experience than someone else in one dimension, and the other person can have more experience than you in a different dimension.

When two such people communicate, it's rarely clear who knows more. Typically, I know more about the task I'm working on, and he knows more about X, and that's why I'm asking him about X. Sure, if he wants to know what I'm working on - happy to engage, provided he doesn't withhold the information I'm asking for.

Useful conversation relies on mutual purpose.

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